Investigation 8
Aug07
On the one hand, lots of you have told Mick to STFU without a lawyer.
On the other… Seriously, if the ATF is investigating you, a lawyer doesn’t do a lot of good. Sure, they MIGHT back off, but in the cases of many people pursued by these nazis, no lawyer can help. The BATF has extreme jurisdiction. They are not to be fucked with.
If I personally found myself in a BATF investigation? I’d shave my head, grab all the cash I could, and go live in the woods for a decade.
And now, a nigh-pornographic music video.
A lawyer might not help. Or it might. It certainly can’t hurt.
These days, it’s prudent to assert your rights. As in, the first thing to say is, “Look, officer, I understand you’re just doing your job, but I would rather not say anything to you until the public defender gets here, so if you would call their office and ask them to send somebody over, I would appreciate that.”
Oh, and also, while you’re in police custody, presume that anyone who does not claim to be YOUR lawyer, YOUR doctor, YOUR therapist, or YOUR priest, is going to try to spin anything you say into an admission of guilt.
I assime you’ve heard of an adnarim statement? (that’s miranda, backwards)
“I’m interested in cooperating and will exercise my right to remain silent after reading this statement. Please do not attempt to violate my rights in this regard. I want to speak with my attorney. I respectfully ask you to honor this without any purpose of evasion and insist my lawyer be present prior to and during any questioning without exception.
I refuse consent to any search of my person, papers, premises, vehicle, immediate location or effects. I invoke my rights under the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and any applicable state or federal laws. If you Mirandize me and ask if I’ll speak without my attorney present the answer is no. Thank you for your cooperation, and may I have a glass of water please.”
As much as I cherish them, the 2nd,9th, and 10th Amendments are a little out of context. The rest of the statement is good though.
I think that depending on the circumstances, there may be call for any one of those three, and in a pre-prepared statement, you’ll need to cover all your bases.
What having a lawyer helps you with is not making mistakes that WILL be taken as lies, or panicking and saying something stupid. It isn’t to make them back off. Check out Flex Your Rights.
A lawyer might not scare off the feds, but they’re -spectacular- at telling you when to Shut Up (and when you can’t Shut Up). If you’re afraid you’ll say something stupid, they’re good for that.
Exactly. A lawyer isn’t there to save you from the cops, ATF, whatever, they’re there to save you from yourself, especially if you’re not guilty. The people doing the questioning are completely free to lie and they will present the most sinister interpretation of your responses possible to make their case.
So don’t take your chances. Have an attorney present so they can help you spool out the minimum length of rope possible.
Grant just show up to the interview with a “reverse Mohawk” and sing 4 bars of “Alice’s restaurant”. At worse you be process thru the Group W bench.
With all the mother-rapers and father-stabbers and father-rapers…
I have to say, why I despise the BATFE, they make a good threat. I had a firearm ‘lost’ through UPS and they didn’t give a crap until I threatened to call the feds. 5 min. later they ‘found’ it and I had it an hour later.
o.O
I have lost all respect for Joe. Rogue has an excellent line up of brewed and distilled products. All except their Voodoo line, that is.
He’s been drinking that stuff since the second strip we saw him in.
At least he is consistent for a fictional character.
With the others on the lawyer thing. They won’t get you out of trouble, but they can help you from getting yourself in more trouble.
In Mick’s case, the lawyer sitting there and just shrugging, saying ‘go on, answer it’ would quickly tell the agent that Mick isn’t fucking both his hot bosses because he’s a master criminal.
I had a friend, a lifetime ago, who was involved in a federal case with the BATF. He had enough cash to lawyer up, and decided to answer nothing without counsel present.
His lawyer straight up let him know, outside of the interrogation room, that although he could object and keep my friend from saying stupid shit, there was very little he could do to protect my friend. He specifically noted that BATF agents are allowed to ask invasive questions that P.D. cops are not allowed.
My buddy got off without so much as a slap on the wrist, but it was mostly because he wasn’t guilty of anything. He managed to convince them of that by telling the truth. The lawyer was very little assistance.
Perhaps he had the wrong lawyer. Or the wrong sort of lawyer.
I’d also bet that the lawyer has a different opinion on whether he was useful or not. š
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Had a police officer ask me questions about something. I said I need a lawyer. He said, “If you’re not guilty why do you need a lawyer?” My response:
“It’s the innocent who need lawyers, the guilty can lie for themselves. Ben Franklin”
“If you’re not looking to kill someone, why do you have a gun?”
I reply “If you’re not hiding a tiny penis, why are you wearing pants?”
I deal with the other branch of the ATF – the A branch (I’m a winemaker). I have never fallen afoul of them – but you know what, I don’t want to.
The paperwork ALONE is enough to beat a lesser person into whimpering submission…
Gods yes. And don’t get me started about section 922(r) (over on the “F” branch of the ATF). I seriously think they came up with that particular section of the rules just to entrap people.
(922(r) is the section regarding imported rifles and part count. most people don’t care about them unless they are into collecting SKS rifles or other imports, and then it counts a LOT, because one part off can land you in a snootload of trouble.)
You must watch some seriously weird porn.
Define “seriously weird porn”. Remember Rule 34. 8>)
I have to agree with a lot of the other people posting here: While lawyering up and invoking your rights may not get you *out* of trouble, it will certainly keep you from getting yourself into MORE trouble.
Keep in mind that the cops can lie to you all they want without any consequences; The second they catch you in a “lie” though, they can nail you with violating 18 USC section 1001. Since that offense is punishable by up to 5 years in prison, it will prohibit you from ever touching firearms again legally.
That being said, the truth is that cases where talking gets you out of trouble are so rare as to be non-existent. http://blog.princelaw.com/2014/07/27/remain-silent-or-make-admissions/
“If I personally found myself in a BATF investigation? Iād shave my head, grab all the cash I could, and go live in the woods for a decade.
Shave your head?? Yeah, cuz THAT’d make you unrecognizable all right.
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Shave your head? CAsh? Dude – get a lawyer. Your other commenters are exactly right. And I speaking as a lawyer, who practices criminal work.
Get the lawyer, and STFU.
Well it’s a damned good thing I’m not doing anything the BATF would be upset about, isn’t it?
And let’s just hope your next door neighbor’s address doesn’t look anything like yours when scribbled on a warrant.
I have a terrible memory and a poor perception of time and order of events, I often have to go over something several times to remember it properly and I’d still misplace details. Add lack of sleep and/or stress and it’s ridiculous. I often start to do something and then 5 seconds later I give up because I forgot what I was about to do.
Yeah, I’d totally have a lawyer present, I’d probably even insist on consulting with them before saying anything.
Defensive posture on Heidi. Good job making the visuals match the dialog.
…and if nobody else noticed the Voodoo Bacon Donut beer, I sure did.
And as someone who knows and loves Rogue, I also want to smack anyone who buys that overpriced understated crap upside the head with a frozen jelly roll.
Isn’t it illegal to lie to the ATF? I know it’s illegal to talk to the FBI, so just to cover your ass, you’d *better* have a lawyer present.