Bear with me n this:
If you’ve read this comic at all, you know I have no love for Clive “Negroes Were Better Picking Cotton” Bundy. None. Even before his racist bullshit came out, I posted here on this site that I thought he was a deadbeat retard. I lamented that if we’re going to have an uprising, it should be for something more meaningful than some aging cocksucker who lost in court and doesn’t want to pay his grazing fees.
But today, something happened, and I am utterly alarmed and dismayed.
This happened. And the news media is picking it up and running with it.
Except I think it’s horseshit.
I have now had two Texans tell me why this kind of vigilante checkpoint shit wouldn’t fly in Texas, because citizens here are armed and don’t like being interrogated by idiots without authority.
I don’t think these people have met Nevada ranchers before. NV Ranchers are people who think Libertarians are pussies. They don’t give a fuck about following federal law to the T, mostly because they live in the middle of fucking nothing and have close to zero chance of being apprehended/arrested. That’s kinda how this whole Bundy debacle started. Honestly, if this was happening, I’d say that one of the NV residents would have gone to town with a full auto FAL on these neckbeards already.
If they use this guy’s letter as the sole excuse to have a throwdown, as much as I think Bundy and his ilk are fucking idiots, we’re going to have another Waco. And I am not okay with that. It’s one thing to punish the criminals. It’s another thing when our government straight up executes insurgents whole hog for daring to disobey. (For the record, I also think Koresh was a maniac, and an idiot, as were the Davidians. But idiocy should not be legal excuse for the govt to perform a sanctioned massacre of rebels. That… in every sense, that IS tyranny.)
This is the media lying to us. This is the government lying to us. So we won’t give a shit when they commit slaughter.
I can’t find a SINGLE civilian corroboration. In the age of Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr, FB… nothing. Not one report of these folks setting up checkpoints and violating the 4th amendment. Nothing but crickets.
Not ONE person they stopped posted anything about it? Really? Not one person ran into an illegal checkpoint and noted that these guys are screaming about constitutional rights, while violating one of the big Ten Amendments?
I’m calling bullshit on this. The congressman is lying. If you can find a twitter post, a single FB post on this, that predates the congressman’s letter (and right now I find NOTHING), I’ll change my mind. But I think we’re looking at a politician setting up another Waco.
Strap in, kids. Get your popcorn. This isn’t going to go out with a fizzle. The setup is starting.
And I still wont give a crap.
Mostly because I live in Australia.
As a fellow australian, you should care. While there are many differences between us and the states. Legally, constitutionally, historically, a first world government (hell, any government) running roughshod over those that put them into power, even killing them, should worry us all. If it happens in the states it can more easily happen down under. We have No backbone in australia for standing up to the government, the us does. If it happens, its bad news for everyone.
For the reasons we should be worried about this we shouldn’t. The Aus gov in all probability isn’t going to start killing off people who make major problems for them domestically for fear of people taking their side and trying to overthrow the government for the reason that most see them as Nutters (For example, Bob “Mad Hatter” Katter. Almost nobody sided with him in a significant fashion in the last series of elections even with his pro-gun and pro-rights policies and the only reason any of the stuff he wants done in gov will happen is if he is riding on the back of Palmer’s hard work) and thus don’t support them as they don’t feel it is necessary.
They think everything will work out.
However if this Government starts getting cute ideas then we need to start doing things and fast.
*who want to make major problems
Agreed. Im nit worried about the aus government going all homicidal, but they dont need to. They can follow the us example much more easily as we (as a nation) just wint stand our ground. Its tge “she’ll be right mate” mentality.
My point was if the us government gets away with it, our government will be emboldened by it. And unfortunately I dont trust any of the aussie pollies not to let power go to their heads 🙁
Apologies for my crap spelling above, and for the aussie invasion ; )
Australia is so totally unlike the USA- There’s no way that a corporate agenda could overtake your government, using a template successfully applied in the USA. So a dry humored Australian professor wouldn’t need to document the (patently ridiculous! Utterly un Australian!) chain of events.
Oh, wait…
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0252066162
“The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance : the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.”
Have you seen the unedited Bundy video?
Karl Denninger posted it at The Market Ticker http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=228968, and I re-posted it on my blog.
The guy is down to earth and a bit rough, but “racist”? Only in the sense that he uses a few not quite PC terms, and tells the honest truth as he sees it.
It’s pretty ignorant to blame “liberals” and suggest that economic slavery is as bad as being owned and beaten physically by soemone else.
“They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
Yeah, “they put their young men in jail, because they never learned to pick cotton” is ignorant. Saying that slaves had more freedom is moronic. Suggesting that someone would be better off enslaved, where their spouse was chosen for them like breeding stock, is completely ignorant.
What the black community has now is worse.
At least most slaves yearned to be free. The modern slavery to the Democratic Party is much worse, they WANT to be owned by them. And support them all the way to the poor house. I live in Detroit. Four decades of pure Liberal Demacrat rule has destroyed the city. But the majority of citizens don’t care. They still vote the same fools in. And somehow, they actually believe republicans did it!
I would ask for people to start looking at third party candidates. But the system has pretty much set it up to make that nearly impossible at the national level.
> What the black community has now is worse.
Ya lost me. If you truly believe this, you have no grasp of slavery in the USA, or what it entailed.
I think the point Darrell is trying to make is that those of color in this country largely traded slavery-in-fact (actual ownership by other persons) for a kind of soft slavery (where they are “owned” by the government).
I’m not going to try to say that one is better than the other; In fact, I don’t believe that EITHER is acceptable in a free and just society. That being said, at least one system is honest about who the bad guy is…
Compared to the lot in life of some of the folks working in mines and factories at the time? Slavery was bad, but would you rather someone have to pay for you and provide a proper roof and food and clothing and have a vested interest in keeping you healthy enough to work? Or be someone living in a company town earning company scrip that didn’t cover your company bills which left you perpetually deeper in debt, hoping that the mine roof or the machinery doesn’t get you, leaving you dead or maimed and owing your soul to the company store while they simply kick you to the curb and get another one just like you?
Can “the company” ( or “the government” ) kill you with impunity? Can it whip you or cut off your feet? Can it split you from your wife and sell your children away from you? Can it force you into sexual acts?
Get serious, people.
Yeah, all those people being whipped in the streets for talking down to white people. Wait, that doesn’t happen? Well surely it’s the segregated schools and the lack of black people in government or high-profile jobs, right? wait, no that’s not true either…
“They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton.”
“because they never learned how to pick cotton.”
Could this be taken as “they never learned how to work hard”? That’s what I’m taking it as. Same as people who never learned to swing a pickaxe. Doesn’t mean we’re saying “they should be ditch-diggers/cotton-pickers”, more “these people never got taught how to work/be honourable and now have no idea where to start”
Presentation is everything.
http://aattp.org/businesses-facing-huge-losses-threats-thanks-to-bundy-ranch-terrorists-armed-patrols-video/
In that stor… accusation: “We are not a playground for armed militias.” Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Nev., said during a meeting with area leaders about the militia last week. He wrote a letter recently, warning of militia roadblocks but 8 News NOW did not find any militia checkpoints.”
Anything from a group not full of slobbering fear-mongers and government toadies?
The media is not lying. All the reports that I read stated that a Nevada congressman sent a letter to the Clark County sheriff saying that he had heard from constituents that Bundy’s people had set up checkpoints and that the sheriff should investigate. Reporting about the letter is not lying. Now, the congressman may be lying about what he heard from his constituents. But if he isn’t, he had the right response: report the allegations to local authorities and ask them to look into it.
Also, it really doesn’t matter whether or not the checkpoints would fly in Texas since we’re talking about Nevada. Furthermore, I suspect that even if someone was armed (and not everyone is, let alone all the time) they would hesitate to throw down against a large number of people who are all armed and at least some of their weapons would already be out.
Just to clarify, the point about Texas was that it wouldn’t fly in Texas, and Texans are less independently-minded than Nevadan ranchers, so it won’t fly in Nevada either.
Also, I believe jlgrant’s objection to the media is that they’re performing no fact-checking. News organizations are expected to provide fair and balanced reporting, and just because you’re reporting “Rep. Numbnuts Claims Grass Is Pink” rather than “Grass Is Pink” doesn’t excuse you from pointing out that grass is generally not, in fact, pink.
Ruby Ridge would make a better government conspiracy comparison. The Branch Davidians (mainly David Koresh and his closest aides) were stockpiling huge amounts of weaponry, and were themselves responsible for most of the shooting deaths in the raid on the Waco compound. Yes, the fire was inadvertently started by the ATF, but the bullets pulled from the victims, particularly the children, all matched the Russian rifles the cultists were using, not the ARs used by the FYI and ATF.
As I recall, the children’s shooting deaths to which you’re referring all happened during the fire (which, I believe, included CS gas and probably cyanide fumes) and were ruled mercy killings. They happened well after the initial armed attack, and the siege, and the fire started by unknown sources (but which would be incredibly unlikely for the Branch Davidians to have started themselves).
Also, as I recall, the “huge amounts of weaponry” work out to something like 3 legally-owned semiautomatic weapons per adult. By that standard, I’d suspect most of the Americans posting in these comments are “stockpiling huge amounts of weaponry”.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/topten2.html
Did the CS gas harm any of the people, especially the twenty-two children, inside the compound?
According to medical examiners who performed the autopsies, CS gas did not directly kill any of the more than 80 Branch Davidians, including 22 children, who died in the fire on April 19. Nor did anyone perish from inhalation of CS gas–or its byproduct from a fire, cyanide–the medical examiners told FRONTLINE. Other experts have told FRONTLINE that CS gas may have totally incapacitated the children and others so that when the fire occurred, it would have rendered them incapable of escape. It should be noted that Mount Carmel had not been gassed preceding the last hour of the fire. Experts also noted that CS gas only has a persistence factor of about ten minutes.
Who started the fire that erupted a little more than six hours after the FBI began inserting the tear gas on April 19?
Although several of the surviving Branch Davidians insist that they did not start the fire, a panel of arson investigators concluded that the Davidians were responsible for igniting it, simultaneously, in at least three different areas of the compound. Unless they were deliberatley set, the probability of the three fires starting almost simultaneously was highly unlikely, according to fire experts. Furthermore, the videotapes show the use of accelerants that strongly increased the spread of the fire. Although one Branch Davidian stated that a FBI tank had tipped over a lantern, videotapes show that the tank had struck the building a minute and a half before the fire began. Also some of the surviving Davidians’ clothing showed evidence of lighter fluid and other accelerants. In addition, FBI listening devices seemed to establish that the Davidians were overheard making statements such as, “Spread the fuel,” some six hours before the fires began. (Joint Hearing of the Crime Subcommittee July 1995.)
What caused the death of more than 80 Branch Davidians inside the compound on April 19?
Medical examiners, Dr. Nizam Peerwani and Dr. Rodney Crow, have told FRONTLINE that many of them died from asphyxiation when the intense fire raced through the compound. Others, particularly women and children who huddled under wet blankets in a concrete chamber, were fatally injured when debris collapsed on them during the fire, the officials said. Still others were shot to death, suicide or homicide victims in apparent mercy killings, they said. Both the coroners and some FBI sources have told FRONTLINE that the pattern of most of the bodies was not consistent with a theory of mass suicide.
There are no indications that any of the shootings were “mercy killings”.
Tear gas has a “persistance factor of about ten minutes” _in_open_air_.
US Army regulations FORBID the use of CS gas where rioters are enclosed, or children, the elderly, or those with weaker than normal lung function are known to be, _because_they_can_easily_choke_to_death_ from the CS, even if wearing gas masks (CS in large quantities clogs filters, and gas masks are hard enough to breathe through for young, fit troops.)
I used to teach this shit.
You said, ‘There are no indications that any of the shootings were “mercy killings”.’ Please see the “Interim Report to the Deputy Attorney General Concerning the 1993 Confrontation At the Mt. Carmel Complex, Waco, Texas, July 21, 2000”. Based on expert testimony, the Office of Special Counsel concluded that some of the Branch Davidians were killed by other Branch Davidians as mercy killings. This assertion WAS missing from the final report, but to say “there are no indications” is incorrect.
I’d also like to note that your blame of the Branch Davidians for the fire is based largely, if not solely, on government sources, including sources from the other group (aside from the Branch Davidians) in the best position to start the fire. (I’m not familiar with the arson investigators you mentioned, so I don’t know if they were government staff or independent investigators.) I think it’s clear that there’s a problem with disproving “the government is lying to us” using only the evidence you’re presented by that government.
Remind me who did those ballistic tests? Seriously, if anyone can find a compiled list of the claims made by the government about Waco, and run them through a truth-o-meter… If you still believe the government’s story (and they’re stickin’ to it!), well, may your chains sit lightly, and all that. There were two front doors to their compound, for example… One of them got “lost” so nobody could prove whether the bullets turning it to soft cheese were ‘inbound’ or ‘outbound’. So: Who had control of the evidence? Doors fared much better through a raging arson than children’s bodies… So I guess that’s just a shame.
Well, they always had the timing of the warrant… Which they waited til the last day it was valid. or the claims of abuse… Except they didn’t, and were exonerated earlier. I suppose he couldn’t be expected to just come out peaceably… Except he did, before.
As I mentioned a few days back, if you have to come up with a justification after you’ve decided on a course of action, it’s an excuse, not a reason.
As opposed to “knowing” the truth, and declaring any evidence that doesn’t support your position is a lie? Once you decide that the autopsies, all the evidence is tainted, and that the courts all conspired against the Branch Davidians to support the government, I can only ask what the point of discussion is. You already know the answer you want.
You should be reeeally careful taking a position that you might also be guilty of. Quoting a family member’s earlier post elsewhere: “the flame-throwing tanks are among the allegations for which there is photographic evidence. I’ve seen it myself, I own the videotape. You can clearly see a bright flame-like flash at the moment the “battering ram” (or “flame thrower?”) pulls out of the structure. It not only flashes, it actually curls, like flame. It wasn’t in any area where one could have expected a shiny piece of flashing or any other reflective substance. As far as I am concerned I have not heard any other believable explanation of this image.”
As for the autopsies:
* Most of the adult corpses that could be autopsied showed varying amounts of soot, from “some” to “almost totally black.
* All of the corpses of children that were autopsied showed little to no soot in the lungs.
* There were no child-sized gas masks in the building, and the adult sized ones would not work on children.
What do you conclude from that?
It took me a while to put all the pieces together, and there are a couple of facts that are not present, but you should be able to deduce a simple, and rather ugly, fact from the above.
“I don’t think these people have met Nevada ranchers before. NV Ranchers are people who think Libertarians are pussies. They don’t give a fuck about following federal law to the T, mostly because they live in the middle of fucking nothing and have close to zero chance of being apprehended/arrested.”
This is how they’ve gotten away with sending pipe bombs to Park Service offices.
Everybody, and it’s sad to see FTF jump on this bandwagon, has a perverse desire for this to be Waco 2.0. This desire is so strong, and these terrorists and insurgents have already gotten away with so much, that I wouldn’t be surprised to see a widespread armed revolution start there and spread. It won’t be because of government action, but inaction, and that inaction will be interpreted as a victory, and the insurgents will wonder where else they can “win”, and they’ll keep winning until suddenly it’s
Fort Sumter 2.0
> Everybody, and it’s sad to see FTF jump on this bandwagon, has a perverse desire for this to be Waco 2.0.
Reread my post again with this in mind: You are wrong. 100% wrong. I don’t want a conflagration. If I see one, it will be proof that the people I argue with on a continuous basis are RIGHT, and I’ve been WRONG for quite some time. As cynical as I am, I still hold out hope that this will be solved peaceably. If it is solved with a bloodbath, started by the Fed Gov and media, excused by these lies… then it will be proof that we do live under a tyrannical government.
I may not agree with Bundy at all, but I do respect his right, as a citizen, to act out. And as a citizen, he should not be murdered on the spot.
“acting out” does not include waving guns around.
And how have we chastised government for doing just that?
Larken Rose has a reeeally controversial video entitled “When should you shoot a cop”… Nobody likes it because they can’t get past the title, but the short answer is “Whenever you’d have to shoot anyone else”. You don’t get extra rights with a magic uniform and badge.
Except, you can’t claim self-defense against a police officer who is properly performing his duty. If you are robbing a store, and the cops come in guns drawn, you don’t have a right to protect yourself anymore.
Watch the video first please. Your example has nothing to do with it.
When can you shoot a cop? When he’s doing something to you that makes you fear for your life, while you I turn are doing nothing illegal.
Don’t forget that officer that was doing a no knock warrant on a residence at night. The guy WAS a criminal, he was growing/making drugs, but since the cops didn’t announce themselves he though he was being robbed and shot.
He killed a cop. And the grand jury decided not to indict him!
If you are in the right you are allowed to defend yourself. Cop or criminal. Citizen or military.
Owen — and under those circumstances, you wouldn’t be within your rights to shoot anyone else — even some dude on teh street who just happened to notice you robbing the store.
Again, a uniform and a magic badge only gives you ONE thing – “qualified immunity” if you screw up _in_the_line_of_duty_. (Yes, _you_ can effect an arrest. The difference is, since _you_ don’t have qualified immunity, unless your arrest is 100% correct in all respects, including _how_ you affect it, _you_ will get sued or criminally charged. A cop has more leeway for _mistakes_, because he has qualified immunity. No, I’m not against qualified immunity – it’s kinda necessary for LEOs to be able to do their job without having to supply a lawyer as a full-time partner to pre-clear everything they do – although I am against the abuses of it we see from time to time.)
A badge and uniform conveys no special immunity from the consequences of committing criminal assault, nor does it give you extrajudicial capital authority to execute people when other citizens would be forbidden to. (Yes, use of lethal force laws apply to cops as well. Ever since the Supreme Court ruled cops can’t shoot a burglary suspect in the back of the head for running away when there is no reason to think they are armed or pose an imminent threat to ANYONE.)
Nobody is robbing anything here, this is a terrible analogy.
But what was the rush to storm the Davidian compound? It’s not like they were going anywhere.
Exactly, especially since the FBI’s OWN negotiators and psychiatrists officially reported to the FBI bosses (including specifically the guys in charge on scene) that the absolute _worst_ thing they could do in that situation was exactly what the FBI went ahead and did.
Their own experts on the nutbags in question told them, “If you surround him with a show of force and create a siege mentality, everyone will die in a fire. Because that is EXACTLY what he has been preaching to his followers — that the forces of Satan will surround the fatithful with an army, and everyone will die in a fire in that conflict. Back off, cordon off the area, and wait his dumbass out.”
Also don’t forget that when the ATF came in, guns blazing, the Branch Dravidians CALLED 911 and asked for the cops to come, announcing that unknown intruders were shooting up buildings with children in them. Yeah, that’s a heck of a “standoff”, when the supposed “holed up criminals” are begging the COPS to show up and protect them from the guys trying to shoot their way in.
Note that shortly after the Waco incident, a similar confrontation occured (Montana, I believe) with a group called the Free Men. The local sheriff refused to allow FBI to take over the incident (and these guys were wanted on, among other things, YEARS of tax evasion). He set up a perimeter wide enough the nutbags couldn’t actually see the cordon, didn’t blare PSYOPS loudspeakers into the compound, etc. The local sheriff gave a press conference where he said (close paraphrase, in answer to a direct question as to if he was planning on storming the compound), “Why? These guys are already confined. Sooner or later they’ll get bored or run out of food, and they’ll surrender.” Eventually, the Free Men ran out of venison jerky or whatever, and gave up. (Got acquitted of tax evasion, too. Sure, they hadn’t filed 1040s in forever, but being nutbags who’d cut themselevs almost completely off from society; they earned so little money, the IRS actually owed THEM money.)
The fools waited until the last day the warrant was valid. “Rush” is subjective.
“Civilian” is a term that means “not military”. Most of the federal government is civilian. The word I suspect you are looking for is “private”, which means “not government”. Bundy is not capable of violating the Bill of Rights as he is a private actor, and the Bill of Rights applies only to the government. (The only exception I know of to this principle is Marsh v. Alabama, which applied the 1st Amendment to the corporation behind a company town. That decision is now largely abandoned.)
ci·vil·ian
Merriam-Webster:
noun \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
: a person who is not a member of the military or of a police or firefighting force
Oxford:
civilian
1A person not in the armed services or the police force.
American Heritage:
ci·vil·ian
NOUN:
A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police.
“And nobody at all will give a shit.”
Well, Bundy gave them a good reason not to give a shit when he spouted racist crap. Few gave a shit about Randy Weaver because he was a white separatist (“Racist!”). Few people gave a shit about the Branch Davidians because they were a bunch of nutbag Christians and Koresh was supposedly a child molester. Bundy got slapped with the “racist” label, and already people are backing away from him since they don’t want to be in the impact radius of a drone strike (side-note: I’ve seen a few noticeable posts on Democratic Underground whishing this fate upon Bundy. Hypocrisy since they don’t want drone strikes on al-Qaeda affiliated militant Muslims on the other side of the world.)
It’s much easier to smash an enemy of the State when you first marginalize him.
Bundy has been “slapped with the racist label” because he is in fact racist. But that’s not the reason he’s wrong in this situation. He’s wrong because, among other things, the Federal government actually exists, is legitimate, and owns the lend in question.
And that’s why nobody has ever tried to so much as arrest Bundy before, right?
I’m sure Randy Weaver’s infant wasn’t a bigot… That said, the militarization of police is precisely what “police state” entails, and they SHOULD be shown that they’re outgunned by pissed off people for a change. Maybe it’ll lead to some legislation that gives more of a damn about liberty than security and convenience for once.
When I first heard about the video of him being a racist it put a bad taste in my mouth as well and then I saw the full video.. Please watch this: http://youtu.be/Stbf9GcVQ3E
There’s no context that makes “I’ve often wondered if they’d have been better as slaves” appropriate. There’s no context that makes ‘they’re all living on government subsidies because they never learned how to pick cotton’ any better. People are better off when they are literally enslaved? I don’t think so.
Then there’s the broad racist generalizations. Only “the Negro” is on government subsidies, surely no one else. All hispanic people are illegally jumping the border, and all of them have this idealized family life he speaks of. Even the dude making the video speaks in broad, untrue generalizations designed to feed into the fears of his (presumably) Conservative audience. They even fake a Malcolm X “quote” (he never said it) demonizing Democrats when in fact JFK and LBJ were leading the Civil Rights push. The host constantly vomits buzzwords like “liberal media” to further feed his audience the idea that they are right and he is wrong, and that despite Bundy being a loon, we should throw our support fully behind him.
That video is a clever attempt to spin, but it doesn’t help Bundy at all.
Bullshit doc, just listen to these videos http://s1.zetaboards.com/Express_Yourself/topic/4442102/1/
Malcolm x expressed those EXACT statements against the democratic party.
What Bundy was expressing when he stated they never learned to pick cotton is that they never learned to work!
It’s true, without learning the value of hard work you have no basis for a moral center.
SteveA
Other notable people believe that only hard work could give undesirables a moral center. The phrase Arbeit Mach Frei hung above the entrance to the Dachau concentration camp, in english Work brings Freedom.
I don’t think the line of reasoning that Bundy has leads to anywhere good.
If you read/listen to all that was said, he railed against conservatives/Republicans as well, but that gets conveniently left out. Malcolm was railing against voting in WHITE politicians across the board, against voting for those incumbents who had failed to carry out their promises.
There’s still no context that makes “never learned to pick cotton” or “wonder if they were better as slaves” anything but ignorant, passive racism. Notice, again, he (and you) completely ignore that your statements can apply to people of any race. Bundy just *conveniently* only and specifically mentioned “the negro.”
They could ESCAPE the cage they could SEE. Still not a good enough context?
Also: That’s not the same LBJ who said “I’ll have these niggers voting democrat for the next 200 years!” is it?
(spoiler alert: it is.)
Here’s a little info I’m not sure you know. When they started the whole “endangered turtle” crap, they re-wrote the specs for grazing on federal land. The new spec would allow Bundy to have ONLY 1% of his herd on that acreage, in effect closing his business. That’s when he stopped paying his grazing fees. Has that little tidbit made the asstard media? Of course not. So the effing federal government (hence forth the FFG) re-writes your contract to force your multi-generational business OUT of business, what would you do?
That part about “the persistent watch of an armed militia” brings back some memories …
… of cops.
Perhaps some “concerned citizens” should wander up there on nice, efficient motorbikes and have friendly chats with lots of people they meet in the area, then come back and document them. Just be sure you have insurance on your cameras, smartphones and computers that covers Confiscation In Breach Of The Fourth Amendment (aka theft by the largest armed gang in the country) before you go public with anything like that. Bullies hate being called out on their shit.
Sorry to burst your conspiracy bubble, but the only information we have access to on a traffic stop, without a warrant, is whatever is recorded on your criminal record, or your vehicle’s public insurance database… IE anything a person with a few minutes on their hands could probably dig up anyway, not that it’d get them anywhere.
If you’re just some joe schmo off the street, and not some terrorist plotting to destroy the world, chances are we know pretty much nothing about you and don’t really plan to because that’s not our job.
I started thinking about a reply to this while I ate, and then something about it hit me: “That’s not our job.” Ehhh …
Thing is, even if you’ve no interest in going beyond the call of duty someone else has and it is someone else‘s job. Joe Schmo may not be on the radar, but if he spots a wide-open vulnerability for a terrorist attack the easiest way to get someone official to take it seriously is to e-mail … er … me, I suppose … about it. I don’t even have to open the e-mail.
They’re not very good at it, of course. If you can’t fly because “James W. Schneid” is on the no-fly list, you fly as “J. William Schneid” instead, and that may be atrick worth knowing even if the event that got the name on the list happened before you were born or the guy by that name who got his name put on the list is already dead. Still, there are people who take an interest in things that aren’t your job, and some of them get really unhappy if they find out you’ve been filming them. They don’t have to be good at it to become an issue. If you can go up there, make a documentary about the situation and get copies of it to al-Jazeera, the Guardian, al-Manah and Russia Today before they know you’re doing so, they can’t really do much about it, but if you start hanging around with a camera in your hands and interviewing everybody in sight you’re going to get the attention of men with and without badges … especially if someone’s got some plans involving “another September WMD dossier” and “another Ruby Ridge.”
We’re gonna need some Ewoks soon.
I just hope the storm troopers’ aim hasn’t improved.
Yeah, it looks like bullshit. Specifically, it looks a hell of a lot like the kind of bullshit that doesn’t actually HAVE a source.
I have seen this type of thing a lot. A story comes out, then gets passed around, embellished, passed around some more and eventually the people fact-checking the 5th generation of it find the 4th generation statements and consider them factual. It becomes circular and self-supporting. Rumors take on a life of their own, and in situations like this rumor control is a very tough job.
The thing is, there may or may not be a conspiracy. Sure, there are plenty of people in the government psychotic enough to manufacture a reason for shits and giggles, but there are also many MORE people who will pad a statement with what they think is probably happening somewhere. Junior staffers actually trying to do what they think is the right thing, one after the other adding to it until the original rumor-monger is unable to recognize it as their bastard creation.
And that’s the thing with most conspiracy theories – there is almost never an actual conspiracy. No conscious thought, no single controller, no secret cabal. Just dozens and dozens of people adding a tiny bit of detail to a story as it circulates. It’s like the “telephone game” small children play while sitting in a circle and whispering ear to ear.
The government doesn’t HAVE to manufacture a story. A couple interns will seed it and gossip in general will organically build it. All the government ever has to do is not actively practice known rumor control methods.
(My backstory in a nutshell: two decades of various emergency services work).
There’s probably not a deliberate conspiracy per se. However, I expect there to be a certain level of government bigotry against strongly religious people, leading government officials to regard us as enemies. The Catholic Church is not alone in opposing the HHS mandate and gay lifestyle advocates. The LDS does so too. I expect government actions against religious dissenters to increase in both frequency and violence, as people become more and more acclimated to the idea that strong religious convictions make people into “others.”
As for racist bigotry, Bundy may be old enough to have been raised to believe that the Mark of Cain was expressed by African ethnicity. That’s a bit of LDS doctrine that has changed in my mother’s lifetime. Unlike the vote taking down polygamy, that one was unanimous.
It’s not the strong religious convictions, it’s the negative actions and ideas that are often associated with those ideas. Anti-choice, anti-equality, pro-discrimination, pro-ID in government schools, etc. Those are, to be kind, rather unpopular ideas and at odds with a great number of voters. It’s as though “in the world, but not of the world” and “so much as it depend upon you, be at peace with all men” get forgotten in favor of trying to pass religious laws on others.
I think if more people followed the model of Pope Benedict or the Gautama and decided that not agreeing with anothers actions did not require oppressing those actions, they’d find a lot more support. The religious in this country fear being oppressed for their religious belief. The non-religious or non-mainstream religious fear an attempt at monotheocracy.
I can’t seem to find any media or government outlets reporting anything more than a Congressman having sent a letter adising that some of his constituents have complained …
The only factual references are to the existence of the letter. Inferential references (mostly pictorial) all seem to be dated 10-14 days ago.
(Including the shot of the idiot prone on the pavement, aiming between jersey barriers – with no sight apparent on the picatinny rail?! Even if the BLM were to have been in the wrong, if I was under someone’s sights in that fashion, that someone would be in extreme danger the *instant* there were no bystanders … )
Oh, and, is there a State in the Union where preparing to fire from within (or across) a road right-of-way is _not_ illegal?
I have wondered from the first time I saw that insane picture and the supposed explanation- WHY the person shown was not
A. Killed immediately. With complete justification. Where else in the USA do you see unpopular political activists line up a rifle on ANY law enforcement personnel and walk away scott free?
B. Arrested for this, as he was supposedly identified by name. So many legal reasons, the business of aiming a weapon from/across a right of way would just be a reason to take the person into custody while the DA’s wore out a word processor with the rest.
A. every tea party protest.
B. maybe because he’s hanging out in the middle of a huge gang of armed criminals threatening violence, and the local sheriff would rather wait for the National Guard to deal with it instead of sending a deputy up to serve a warrant?
A) Citation needed.
B) The only ones ACTUALLY threatening violence wore uniforms.
Yeah, I would LOVE to see the evidence of ANY Tea Party protest or rally (much less “every”) where people POINTED GUNS AT COPS.
I’d also like to know why those people weren’t shot dead immediately by said cops. Which would have not only been 100% legal for the cops (or, for that matter, John Q. Public wandering by) to do, but would have been 24/7 news for the last five years.
“Preparing” to fire across a road? Not illegal in any state I am aware of.
Actually firing across a road is illegal in every state I am aware of, as is directly pointing a gun at a person (other than in specific situations, such as lawful self defense).
But “preparing”? Not illegal.
I was going to say there are 50 where preparing to fire a rifle across a quiet road at the PCP-tanked lunatic on the other side of it currently firing a pistol into your elderly mother’s ground-floor bedroom window probably isn’t illegal.
It’s all about context. On the beach, hear a woman scream, look round and see a man with his hand on her backside. Is her attacking her, or just a split second too slow getting the hornet off?
I probably used the wrong words. I should have said “preparatory to firing.” Having loaded a firearm, taken a firing position, and aiming said firearm is clear indication of intent to fire (unless the individual in question is mentally/emotionally equivalent to a five year old child who has never been taught any basic weapons practices.) I’m not licensed to practice law, but I’m 70% certain I could formulate a case and successfully argue for a conviction based on violation of just about any well-written ‘firing from/across a roadway’ statute.
I think you’re wrong. The only reporting has been the initial report of the Congressman asking the Sheriff to investigate. No drumming up of support for immediate action, no nothing.
We DO live under a tyrannical government, a fact which I’ve become resigned to accept as..well, fact,
for some time now.
But shit like this still scares me.
resigned to accept it? that’s well…kinda sad. you made Patrick Henry cry, just a tiny bit there.
Excuse the fuck out of those of us who aren’t cut out for heroic yet pointless martyrdom.
To paraphrase and slightly mangle a Churchill-ism, tolerating tyranny is feeding the gator and hoping it will eat you last. You may live, for a time, but the maniacal bloodthirsty ways of tyrannical regimes will be the end of you. The last resort is terrible to contemplate, and not something that any sane person would ever want to embark upon lightly. While there is even the slightest glimmer of hope of turning things around peacefully, we must do all that we can.
My advice, stop voting for anyone who’s been in Congress or the Senate for more than 2 terms. Throw all of the incumbents out, the long-timers in both parties are equally rotten.
” Throw all of the incumbents out…”
Yeahhh, good luck with that.
no one said you had to go out in a blaze of glory. but there are always little things you can do.
read Claire Wolfe’s “101 things to do until the revolution”.
the definition of “pointless” shares something with the definition of “treason”… When it succeeds, none dare call it so.
You seem to have bought into all the rest of the Government BS, why aren’t you buying this
I for one do give a shit. I hope every last one of the militia fucktards bringing out their guns to play gets slaughtered. Anyone who wants to bring weapons into a public forum and threaten a “might makes right” stance should in my opinion be killed. Anyone who does not realize that the government has the most “might” is an idiot mudding up the gene pool.
We need a fundamental understanding that “might” is not just a scalable term. One doesn’t just buy an aircraft carrier full of planes and declare that one can beat their own population into submission because tey don’t have one of their own. To occupy or control a populace (to “win”), one needs men with rifles, and the will to go jackbooting into their homes, and drag them out, each and all. Men with rifles are ALWAYS fightable by men with rifles, and in THAT case, government does NOT hold the ‘big stick’. http://www.motherjones.com/files/guns-owned630.jpg
sounds like a definition of Fourth Generation Warfare to me…
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2013/04/tyrants-beware-4th-generation-warfare.html
Damn, I hadn’t seen some of this since the antiterror classes in the military. I wondered how long it would be until single unaffiliated people were the prime driving force in conflicts…
And then I watched Blackhawk Down, and realized I was too late. That’s the vicious way an anarchy gets defended. There’s no brain to attack, the beast isn’t a wolf, where a bullet to the thinking center will put it down… It’s a sponge, and you’ll have to grind the entire thing to hamburger, or accept that you cannot kill it.
exactly. you can’t “kill” 4th generation warfare. even negotiating with it is difficult, as there are no real “leaders”. sure, it’s inefficient. each little group running around, doing their own thing. coordination is next to impossible. but the lack of a command structure means there is no one thing to attack to immobilize the beast…fighting army ants with a shotgun, even with an infinite supply of ammo, doesn’t work in the end.
Well, that’s military classes for you. A while after Syria and Turkey nearly went to war over a damn on the Euphrates, decades after Israel decided to keep the Golan Heights (because, obviously, Israelite archers can exact a heavier toll on charging Syrian spearmen if the spearmen are having to charge uphill) and while Israeli forces were occupying the catchment area of the Litani river (and callign it a security cordon) we got told that future conflicts over resources such as water were a possibility. That’s like someone saying in 1950 that these “tank” things could prove significant in war some day.
right. so in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising you were on he side of the Nazis? and at the Tienanmen Square Massacre you were on the side of the chinese communists? just so we know where you stand..you know, the side of governments killing people who disagree with them because..well..fuck them, that’s why.
I hope those chains weigh lightly on you. you’ve obviously placed them there yourself.
Yes and in the Whisky Rebellion I was on the side of George Washington. You missed the entire point and that is there are other ways to protest and to enact change, because we do not live with nazis or a reactionary tyrannical government. If you can not see or believe that then you are as blind as any other fanatic I have ever met, be they tea bagger, libtard, demorat.
“we do not live with nazis or a reactionary tyrannical government”
no, currently we don’t. at least not in totality. there are fringes and abuses I’m sure you’ve heard of. but we COULD. and that’s the point.
do you understand that either party, given the right reason, could enact a tyranny that would eclipse all others, at the stroke of a pen? just because your side is in power now, does not make it always so.
obama has removed laws from effect, simply by stating he won’t defend them or enforce them. the laws in question are irrelevant. look at that act standing alone. is that a power you want your opponents to have? obama placed that arrow into his quiver, and it sits there, for all the future presidents to use.
bush (and later obama) have placed the NSA in a position that the east german Stazi, the soviet KGB, and the nazi Geheime Staatspolizei (gestapo) would have loved to have. Homeland Security has near-unlimited power to do what it wants, when it wants and (along with other police agencies of all levels) is acquiring machines designed and built for war to help make sure no one gets the ability to tell them “no”.
if I hand someone the parts of a tool, and they later assemble and use that tool in a fashion obvious to it’s construction…should we be shocked that such a thing happened?
the pieces are already there, and if you can’t see it wait till your guy is no longer in power…the fog will clear and you will be outraged. but don’t be upset at the next guy in office.
he’s just using the tools you gave him.
Then work to take those tools away. Run for public office, set up a PAC, start a volunteer organization. Don’t wave a gun around and then try and have people take you seriously.
Update no workee, again?
Apparently not. 🙁
This is getting a bit recockulous. Or is this the first missed update? Fingers crossed that all is well with JLG and this is just another hosting whoopsy.
I don’t think setting up a checkpoint gives anybody a green light to slaughter anybody, your entire premise is flawed and you sound like just another nutter.
Anyone who thinks the government is benign should read this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
If this was facebook, I’d “like” that.
I like to put that in context for people… Over the course of a century, over a quarter of a billion of the people DEPENDENT on their government, which promises to protect them, die at its hands.
The worst civilian shooting ever was in Norway, 70something people killed. Now, for scale, if that happened 90 times per day, every year for 100 years, THAT is how many people that governments have murdered… Just back to 1900. It wasn’t much better before, and it isn’t looking better after.
So, this comic got a lot funnier after it turned out that Bundy is a posse comatatus nutter, who thinks that capital-g-God speaks to him directly, and then started putting out his hilariously wrong lessons about the history of the US, and the only people actually threatening violence at each other are the different factions of Militia, as the movement of Bundy supporters slowly eats itself as was inevitable. After all, you get a group of people who are not just willing, but looking for an excuse to fight for their beliefs, who see those that don’t march in step as the enemy, and not all of them believe exactly the same thing, then put them all in the same area for an extended period of time alongside a developing situation – hell, I’m more surprised they haven’t already slaughtered each other without any government intervention.
But, as it happens, absolutely nothing happened in the way of Waco 2.0, either, despite how trivially easy it would have been to kick off a massive firefight while maintaining plausible deniability.
While there’s still people at the ranch, considering nothing of note(well, other than earmarking for mockery) for the better part of a month other than Bundy filing some documents with the LVPD(Who say they’re investigating, while the public chuckles at Bundy’s sudden willingness to accept the power of US law), I’m pretty comfortable with saying that we can safely toss this conspiracy theory on the “Utter bullshit” pile, along with the rest of them.