Dinner With Dad 10
Yeah, based on similar talks in my past romantic history.
So there may be a comic coming up on this soon, because I just know how this shit s going to pan out, and I’m already pre-disgusted. Long story short: They’re closing the last primary lead smelter in the USA. Mostly because the plant pollutes like fucking crazy. This means the cost of ammo is going to get jacked through the fucking roof.
And that’s horseshit. Over 95% of the lead used to make ammo is, and I know, lots of uber-hardcore-right-wing types don’t want to hear this: RECYCLED. That’s right. The bullets you buy, the plinking ammo you use at the range, even the shit the military uses? RECYCLED LEAD. Primarily reclaimed from, and this tickled me, car wheel balance weights.
But this isn’t going to stop the manufacturers and retail outlets from jacking the price to the fucking front doorstep of God. So if you’ve been holding back, don’t. Buy ammo now, what ammo you can find. Buy it now before they jack that shit up. It’s bullshit. It’s pure bullshit. They’re not going to jack the price of fishing weights, no, nor the price of tire balance weights. But ammo? They’re gonna jack that shit hard. Mark my words. Buy it now. NOW. Go on the internet, go to your local retailers, and grab your bullets. Even you reloaders. This isn’t the Obamascare. This is me raising the flag before they decide to fuck us all over. Before they start raping your wallet. On that note, the link below the comic for Paypal donations is wide open, and all donations are appreciated, partially because I’d like to stockpile a little more myself before this ten-ton dump truck worth of shit hits the fan. Especially .22 LR, if I can FUCKING FIND ANY.
Arrrrrgh.
‘nother article right here. I’d been planning on buying a metric shit-ton of .451 FMJ anyway.
I haven’t seen .22lr in a retail setting since the day after Obama was re-elected. I’m still kicking myself for only buying two boxes then.
i just picked up 2 boxes of 500 over the weekend. LGS close to my mom’s place. it was quasi-reasonable. $40 each.
I like the banter.
I enjoyed the banter.
First heard about this while shopping for ammo at the local store. Proceeded to get an earful from the owner on “Erbamma’s usin da EPA ta backdoor gurn curntrol. He cain’t take er guns, so he’s terkin’ er ammer.” Funny how even the manufacturers have pointed out where they get most of their lead, but nobody’s listening.
Fear sells.
The truth doesn’t stand a chance.
I’ve got just about everybody I know keeping a eye out for lead wheel weights already. Problem is they are being phased out & replaced with zinc.
“The bullets you buy, the plinking ammo you use at the range, even the shit the military uses? RECYCLED LEAD. Primarily reclaimed from, and this tickled me, car wheel balance weights.”
Aaand from where does the lead for car wheel balance weights come?
Think it through, man. Shortages are not averted because there’s an intermediate stage of production. All else equal, if the supply of lead is reduced while aggregate demand—demand for ALL of its uses—stays the same, price will inevitable rise.
they can import all the lead they want (for now…) so instead of American smelters making money in America smelting lead making a “lot of pollution” (in modern country terms “a lot”) now we can import from Africa or south America where they are probably sorting through it by hand with no breathing protection on and completely destroy the area around the mine site. Thanks EPA!
Even worse, now US lead ore will have to be exported for smelting then re-imported.
I’ve got a couple hundred pounds in my basement. Which reminds me, I need to cast a dozen or so mortar and cannon balls.
“You fuck with her, she’ll beat your ass better than I can.”
Oh, that takes me back. So many *ahem* discussions.
While I agree with you on the overblown hype, there IS a concern here. If we stop NEW lead from being introduced, where will the battery makers get their lead? Recyclers. Would that not increase the price of recycled lead as the demand has gone up. Still, it’s way overblown as we can still get our lead from overseas, heck we can even get it trucked in from Mexico if it gets bad enough. And if the price of lead gets high enough, lead smelters will open cleaner plants as the price will be worth the added regulatory and emission compliance costs.
All at higher cost, of course. Some of which will be passed on to consumers.
Clearly it’s Obama’s fault – since the EPA issued the reg in 2008 and, after Obama took office in 2009, he got in the POTUS time machine, went back in time, and made the EPA issue the reg :facepalm:
OMG, George Hussein Bush took our ammo!!!111!!!eleventy!@!!!pass the tinfoil.
Lead is evil shit and clearly the smelter polluted like a MF, so production will shift to China and so will the pollution.
Presumably the lead mine will have to close too, as if you can’t refine it, why dig it out?
In a previous career I audited a lead paint maufacturer in the UK, back in the 90s (last one standing, used for very specialist paints). One blokes job was to fish lead pellets out of a tank – these were made by spraying molten lead into the water. He, uh, wasn’t very smart – not sure if he was dumb to begin with or the 20 years of lead exposure rotted his brain. The whole place would be a superfund site in the US.
Not quite. The notice went out in 08. The reg was finalized in 12. Soooo we can blame both.
Just blame “Government.” People will assign the responsibility to whichever President(s) they hate most.
The original draft notice went out in 1998. Lead is one of the original pollutants identified for control and reduction by Congress in 1976. This rule is NOT something that blindsided the industry. In fact, NONE of the pollution control standards currently comming to fruition are surprises to their respective industries.
Didn’t I read something recently about the military switching to ammo that doesn’t contain lead?
Possibly. It’s definitely true that they’ve switched to ammo that contains tungsten in place of depleted uranium.
thats right. “Green” tip ammo. because, ya know, when ya burn more diesel fuel than the entire continental US overseas, lead is a horrible thing to do to the planet *eyeroll*
“Green tip” refers to the paint on the round to ID it at M855A1, as opposed to a tracer or Mk262 or whatever. The impetus of the redesign was to get better ballistics. Not using lead is a side benefit. It’s notable that lead in anything other than a total metal jacket is released when fired, right near the shooter’s face. The new EPR rounds are designed to perform better and they reap the side beenfit of being “green” and healthier on the shooter. Look through the PDF below. “Lead free” is mentioned a whopping 2 times. The entire rest of the PDF is split between showcasing the performance increase and ensuring that the round will not require retraining or new optics or anything goofy.
The more you know…
http://www.aschq.army.mil/ac/aais/ioc/LCAAP/Industry_Day/634272332137343750.pdf
I can see the smokestack of the smelter in question from where I am sitting at the moment, what worries me about the closing of the smelter is the loss of work for 145 people in our area.
.
the primary source of recycled lead for ammo coming from lead wheel weights is a significant problem… for a couple years now lead wheel weights havent been sold for a few years. you simply cannot get lead wheel weights anymore, its all steel weights
No, most ammo is made from recycled lead plates from car batteries, not wheel weights (which are a minuscule volume compared with batteries). And, lead acid batteries almost always use virgin lead because the impurities in recycled lead degrade performance and longevity. So, no, there’s not going to be some massive increase in the price of lead ammo as a result of the primary smelter closing down. Some hard numbers on lead use here: http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2013/11/us-consumption-of-lead-by-product.html
I think the point wasn’t that there would be a rational increase in price, but that the “WE HAVE NO LEAD” argument (which is bullshit, China would gut it’s entire population if they thought America would buy small intestines for one cent a pound) will be used as an excuse to artificially-inflate the cost of ammo. An imaginary supply-shortage, if you will.
And yet several ammo manufacturers and the NSSF all say the shutdown will have zero impact: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/12/chris-dumm/nssf-sierra-atk-worried-lead-smelter-closure/
Save your panic for real attacks on our rights—and this isn’t one of them.
So… There will be a price-increase in car batteries instead, that sounds like what I just heard?
You know, all this logistical stuff surprised me, honestly.
I actually thought they’d be recycling by using bulldozers on shooting-range backstops when they talked about recycling the lead for bullets.
humph. time to go buy some more bricks of lead to stack away for a rainy day….
Bismuth. 86% as dense as lead, and bismuth and most of its compounds are not as toxic as other heavy metals. It is also non-bioaccumulative.
Translation:
It’s heavy, it’s not going to kill you (unless you get shot with it), and it won’t build up and poison the seagulls/whales/swine/otters etc.
Sorry. Look at the relative percentage of the earth’s crust Lead and Bismuth make up.
Then look at the ammount of each extracted on a yearly basis.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth's_crust
Then consider Lead is mostly used in ways that can be easily recycled, and Bismuth is not.
You will see solid copper hunting projectiles for the toxicity reasons you bring up. They won’t be making cheap practice ammo with them.
Look to the East… Steel case ammo with steel core projectiles.
The problem is the ATF will go, “Oh, you like cheap surplus ammo from Eastern Europe? Well we took the plates out of a 30 year old flak jacket, filled it with pie, and fired this ammo at it. It pierced the jacket, the pie, and the baby kitten walking behind it. ARMOR PIE-PIERCING COP KILLING EVIL! HONEST PEOPLE DON’T NEED THAT MUCH AMMO TO PRACTICE ANYWAYS!”
And then then they will ban the shit out of it, and America will sadface.
holy hell, that “cop killer bullet” hive mind, even posted in the same minute LOL
Will you have my babies?
> Well we took the plates out of a 30 year old flak jacket, filled it with pie
I cracked up.
“We found it to be the closest amalgam to human flesh without shooting at real people like the evil-hearted, murder-plotting, baby-mutilating NRA clearly wants to do. Why else would they have so many guns?”
Glad I made you giggle. Maybe if I keep this up we will be even.
“Steel core projectiles” LOLB& thanks to our lovely politicians and their nonsensical fear of “Cop killer bullets” only certain rifle rounds are allowed to be imported (see Surplus 7.62x54r and 5.45×39 ) because there are only rifles made that shoot those rounds while other rounds like 5.56×45 7.62×39 and 7.62×25 because handguns were chambered in those rounds. that being said, those are all imported so I dont know if domestic manufacturers could make steel core pistol rounds or not, they probably wouldn’t anyways because the anti gun media would flip their collective shit and start ranting about how the manufacturers want all the police to get murdered. though 5.56 is classified as a pistol round and they still make green tip penetrator rounds so… who knows, maybe they would.
To a degree at least, the paucity of bismuth extraction is a function of limited market demand. Increase market, increase extraction.
That said, you make a fair point.
Pay attention to the likes of Julian Simon, not Peter Singer. Natural resources become natural resources because human ingenuity finds a use for them, and they become cheaper over time as we figure out more and better ways to get more of them. Petroleum was a nuisance until we started refining it for kerosene in the 19th century (incidentally replacing whale oil in lanterns, and thus saving the whales). The only reason petroleum is a resource now is because we have uses for it, and nobody yet has come up with anything having a better cost-benefit ratio.
Lead is only a resource because we put it to use. If imported lead gets sufficiently expensive, and if nothing else is found to take its place (two fairly big “ifs”), somebody will probably find a way to extract it from ore without all the pollution. Free markets have a way of rewarding people who solve problems.
High prices have a tendency to attract competition. If lead gets too costly for ammo, then the pain of paying and the opportunity for profit by competing will drive people to develop alternatives — alternative materials, alternative sources, alternative methods of production, I don’t know which or what, but I’m sure they’ll come up with something. There are a lot of people who like to shoot, and they’re all varying levels of informed and creative, and they know lots of other people who can give them suggestions.
yes…but low hanging fruit is sometimes the funniest !!!
Well, I don’t have much money for the till, but I’ve a box or two of .22LR you’re welcome to if you can figure out how to get it out of the People’s Republic of New York.
“Over 95% of the lead used to make ammo is… RECYCLED LEAD. Primarily reclaimed from, and this tickled me, car wheel balance weights.”
Seriously, did this not peg your BS meter? While it’s true that garage reloaders like to use old wheel weights, ain’t enough used wheel weights in America to supply 95% of the lead used in the ammo expended here.
You ever work in a garage? Most of the time I have to balance a tire there’s atleast 20 rounds worth of ammo a wheel. Some of the bad ones need a box worth on their own.
Strictly speaking, there only have to be enough wheel weights for 48% of the lead used in ammo in order for the statement to be true. (Assuming “primarily reclaimed” means “the majority of reclaimed lead,” not just “the largest single source of reclaimed lead”.)