I won’t be following up on this topic tomorrow, but it will be in the comic again SOON.
Here in Texas, we have somewhat easily attainable Concealed Handgun Licenses. We also allow vehicular concealed carry without a permit. (Hence why I haven’t bothered to get my CC. I spend way too much of my day in places that actively prohibit CC, and I haven’t found the time to go get one. Probably will in the next year or so, if only because it allows one to buy guns more easily at a gun show.)
One thing that happens all the time? If someone I know has their CHL, they tell me. I’ve never really understood this. Isn’t the whole point of concealed carry, you know, to keep the fact that you’re carrying concealed? That includes telling your friends and showing them your piece in private. When I get my license, you better believe I’m not telling a soul. My wife and loved ones will know. Nobody else needs to. Also, I will probably be packing some kind of mousegun, and don’t need the storm of derision among other gun owners – thinking something in a .22 WMR revolver would suit me fine. Although I have fired a friend’s carry piece down at the range, a Springfield XD* compact in .40, and I have to admit – it was really light and accurate for an auto pistol.
*As was pointed out, in the original post, I confused this with the XDS, which does not come in .40 – I have removed the offending S. So say we all.
I live in Northern Virginia but work in MD, as a result most days I don’t carry when I leave the house.
And if a .22 WMR is what makes you feel comfortable fine…I certainly wouldn’t use it as my carry though.
you’re doing what is essentially the reverse of everyone in the general vicinity of DC. kudos for living in a free state. i can almost smell the freedom from Baltimore. 🙁
My free state hit me with a hippie tax last week 🙁
we’re paying a RAIN tax. and our gas tax just skyrocketed (again). and alcohol tax went up (again).
I meant that I got taxed for being a Hippie(Hybrid tax).
Hey, whatever firearms works for you man. It’s more about training and shot placement than caliber anyway.
Reminds me of something my dad once said… “Not a single one of those people who deride the stopping power of a .22 will EVER volunteer to be shot by one.”
But I live in Ohio, where it seems like concealed carry is a shifting, nebulous legal trap, the rules can change radically depending on what street you’re on, and “Gun Free Zones” seem to spread across the map like acne, erupting with zero warning, and zero mercy if you’re caught armed in the wrong place.
Not sure where you’re coming from. I live in central Ohio and have never had a negative experience as CCW holder. Especially from law enforcement. But other than this douche bag Ohio seems to be a pretty pro-ccw state. The legislature is even considering a stand your ground law. Even DeWine seems to have gotten on the pro-gun train.
I’d be interested to hear what problems you’ve had though, and in what part of the state. What do you mean by the rules changing depending on what street you’re on.
Well, I’m in the San Francisco Bay Area, so I doubt I’ll see a CCW holder in this state that isn’t either a retired LEO or someone who donated heavily to someone’s campaign fund.
Don’t forget judges and legislators. They get CCW too.
I didn’t seriously look into getting my cc here in Oklahoma until the state legislature started talking about arming teachers. I figured I would get my cc and whatever training the knuckleheads in OKC decided I’d need to carry in the classroom. Not because I believe in arming teachers. Hell no. I wanted to be ready for when one of my stressed out colleagues finally loses their shit. Or, more likely, a student gets a teacher’s gun.
First rule, have a gun. I think that is what the saying was.
Concider this, in Sweden a private citizen has to get a permit to _own_, let alone carry, pepper spray or similar less lethal devices. I have yet to hear about a single case of someone getting a carry permit for spray/taser, even women who are activly stalked by abusive ex-es.
Firearms for self protection? Forget it. If you use a firearm to protect yourself (If you get the allowance to own one to begin with) then your attacker had better been comming at you with something like a military automatic rifle or you _will_ go to jail. One case, old farmer shoots intruder in the leg after intruder threattens him with a knife. Old farmer loses all allowances for firearms and is to spend 4 years in jail.
This is why you start using a walking stick. Cold Steel has a pseudo-blackthorn stick made out of polypropylene, but any ash, hickory or oak dowel 3cm or more in diameter will work. Just put a ferrule on one end and some sort of decorative head on the other. And also, be aware of improvised weaponry in your own home. Almost any good-sized hand or garden tool will do well, but anything you can put in your hand will help. Another fella I follow used to live in Korea, where citizens are allowed to defend themselves with … a balisong. I suggested that a shovel (especially a good, long-handled spade) would have done him much better.
Ah yes, Texas carry laws….all hat, no cattle.
Between the training requirement, open carry ban, the long list of places where carry is banned (churches? really?) and those 30.06 signs, I always laugh heartily when people claim that Texas has the most liberal gun laws of any state. Gun owners know differently.
Meanwhile in yankee Pennsylvania, $25 and a background check gets you a license (the same day in most counties).
JKP – you don’t know what you think you know about Texas. Churches aren’t prohibited, nor are most of the places on the list you’re thinking about. That list was largely eliminated years ago. 30.06 signs are radically uncommon. But I concur, it’s not as “free wheeling” as it could be.
Although I agree that we’re not THE most gun-liberal state, I definitely wouldn’t say “All Hat No Cattle.” (Mostly because you’re abusing the colloquialism.)
Churches are not banned. The main ones in my life that ARE banned are my day job*, schools, and the YMCA**. 30.06 signs are extremely rare.
*Company policy, not law
**30.06 – one of the only such signs I have seen.
I stand corrected — shouldn’t have relied on that old PDF from handgunlaw.us without checking again.
Still, c’mon guys, open carry?
Oh, I’m with ya. It’s looney tunes that we can’t. If it were allowed, I can guarantee that it would become very, very common. And I’d wear my Taurus .357 6″ barrel in its drop holster, proudly, because I’m overcompensating.
And this is why I love Arizona. Granted, I miss my home state of Texas, and if I can convince the little woman to move, I would, but at least Arizona has some great carry laws…
Legal to carry openly.
Concealed carry if you are legally allowed to purchase a firearm(as in no requirement to get a stinkin permit, but it helps with reciprocity, and quicker gun sales).
Legal to purchase NFA registered firearms.
And it seems like we have a gun show here just about every two weeks
So you’d carry open if you could, but you wouldn’t tell anyone you have your CHL… I’m very confused by this. 😀
If I only have CC, I don’t want anyone to know. But if open carry is legal… game on!
For us out of state folk, can you clarify the 30-.06 signs? Is that a forbidden caliber or something?
Dave, 30.06 is a specific point in Texas penal code that says “this is the exact and ONLY sign and method which a public place may legally provide proper notification that a concealed carry permit holder that they are disallowed from carrying on premises.” It’s very specific and exacting, and any signage that does not fully comply with the law may be ignored entirely. Here’s a link if you’re of a mind to learn more. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/30.06.00.html But in short, they must put a sign, in English and Spanish, in letters at least 1 inch high, this exact sign. if it’s only in English, we can ignore it. if not big enough, we can ignore it. If the wording is wrong, we can ignore it. Etc. : “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”
Indeed. The only legit one I’ve seen in the wild was at the YMCA.
Also meanwhile in Yankee Pennsylvania, we don’t have 30.06 signs because we don’t have the language in 30.05 that states a CHL holder can’t be barred from entry solely because handguns are forbidden except as modified by 30.06. Texas has 30.06 signs because they have a legal protection Pennsylvania lacks.
Barred from carry by law (as in if you’re caught it is a crime in itself), or just have to leave when asked due the (dumb) policy of the property owner (and if you refuse be subject to a trespass charge like any other person rightfully refused service)?
If it is the former that sucks, if the latter that’s a good balance between carry and property rights. Just don’t get caught and don’t be a dick if you are. It’s their store and you chose (as I always choose) to ignore their misguided wishes.
“When I get my license, you better believe I’m not telling a soul.”
Except you just told all of us… 😉
…But you don’t know WHEN he will get one…
Default assumption is “yesterday”.
Also, if you’re honest with yourself, carrying a mousegun will probably only last as long as (a) you take a serious 3-day training course and realize how much it sucks to try to use the mousegun in a fight and (b) you realize how comfortable it is to carry a compact pistol (we’re talking a Glock 19 here) in one of those Crossbreed-style IWB holsters.
The XDs doesn’t come in .40, it’s only chambered in .45 and 9mm. Also calling an XDs a “compact” would be kind of redundant because there is no such thing as an XDs “full size”
Now there is such thing as a full size and compact XD-40 and XDm-40, which are both chambered in .40 S&W
Just saying…since your characters do run a gun shop and all.
Not much reason to NOT tell people that I know, if it comes up naturally, I avoid associating with people who I might need a tactical advantage over. The main purpose of concealed is to avoid freaking out people who don’t know me.
As to not telling… I tell people that it’s important to tell. If I’m on a road trip with good friends, they will know. Why? Because if I trust you enough to travel with you, you should know where the gun is in in the vehicle and/or on my person. Just like you should know where my medical info card is and who my emergency contacts are. I mean, I go to the range with friends, because doing things with friends is fun. The conversation is what the conversation is. But NOBODY at my work knows. Because they’re co-workers. Not their business.
Among my friends it about half who carry tell us. I think this more due have 1 really gun scary cat friend. Tom once brought his gun and started to clean it. Scary cat ran to the other and would not come out until Tom put the gun in his car. My rule if you pack and in my home tell me. Some of my friends were unhappy when I told to leave in their car. Those were the types I didn’t trust with a spoon in their hand.
How I wish it was possible to get my CCW. County makes it so prohibitively difficult that you’re denied if you forget to dot an i and the clerk can’t tell if it’s an i or an L.
For instance, if I even touch a handgun in my county, without the permit, I’m in possession of an unregistered firearm, felony, 5 year minimum sentence IIRC. I can’t go to a gun store, pick up, hold, or try to figure out anything about the handgun I want to purchase other then to have the guy behind the counter pick it up and show me all the neat features. Can’t hold it, judge the weight, figure out if the ambidextrous buttons or magazine release will fit my hand, etc.
So to get it, have to go down to the county courthouse. Get the application with the proper license designation. Concealed Carry, Hunting/Target, or Premise. Hunting/Target I can only use it while I’m hunting or go to the range. Premise, I’m only allowed to have it at home, can’t bring it outside or anywhere else, think they’ve added a shooting range amendment to it though. Concealed, well, honestly don’t have anyone I know, or even friends of friends who know someone who has it around here but think it’s ok as long as the premise doesn’t out rightly forbid it. Schools, federal buildings, court houses, places that serve alcohol and state buildings are off limits as well I believe.
Fill out the forms, pay for background and fingerprinting. Then I need 4 letters of good moral conduct from people who reside in the county and have known me for a period of no less then one year. Then wait about 6-12 months until I get a call from a detective to tell me when my court date before the judge is.
The time I tried to do the whole process the wait is what screwed me. Turns out they do background checks on the people who write the letters, now I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, but say one of your recommendations had a run in when he was young and you didn’t know about it and/or the person forgot about it since it was so long ago? Or, in my case, they took so long to get me in front of the judge that the person who wrote the letter moved out of the county, and now I’m one person short and my whole application is now void.
But, if all the paperwork is in order and you go before the judge, now you get to explain to him why you need a handgun. And pretty much forget about the concealed carry. Precedent has already been set in this county where if you want a concealed carry permit the applicant needs to “demonstrate a need for self protection distinguishable from that of the general public”
Kachalsky v. Cacace in case anyone wants to read up on it.
But if you do get through and are granted one of the graduated licenses, now you get to go to the gun store, find which one you want and get a slip of paper with the serial number on it. Back to the court, give them the paper, the serial number is added to your new license. Then back to the gun store where you can now proudly walk out with your pistol.
Congratulations, you’ve now successfully jumped through all the hoops in the gun process. Just keep on the lookout for the local paper. They like to FOIA all the gun records from the county clerks then post interactive Google maps of anyone who has a license
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/14/westchester-county-liberal-journal-news-drags-down-gannett/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/02/us/new-york-gun-permit-map
If you have friends who can’t be trusted with a spoon why would you let them into your house? I don’t make a habit of announcing the contents of my pockets to anyone, no matter who’s house I’m in. It won’t even come up unless they bring it up, and if they ask me to put my gun in my car I will, but I won’t be coming back inside.
Mel and I do have a policy at our parties, which have been *cough* rumored to be a lil raucous at times: leave your piece in your car or let us put it in the safe, if you’re going to be drinking. (Frankly, I think it’s kinda fucked up that we have to tell people this. Guns & booze – don’t mix ’em.)
Catfish, Bob was a good friend, but he could trip on the only ant on the basketball court. And had trouble remembering the business end never gets pointed near anyone when clearing to show the weapon. And if you care more about packing in my home more than being a polite visitor, we send your dinner out to you.
#1 reason to not let on you carry?
You’re in *INSERT FAVOURED CAFE NAME HERE* with a friend who knows. Some guy walks in for an easy roll of the register. Bad Guy flashes gun and demands money. Your friend reacts swiftly and shouts “Shoot him, *INSERT YOUR NAME*!!!”
I had to have a sit-down talk with my wife about the varying permutations of the word “concealed”.
at least carry a tad more than .22 WMR.
like a .25 auto or .380 auto.
maybe even a .38 special snubbie.
You might want to read up on this one. .22 WMR have proven, in ballistic gel and in water jug tests, to have considerably better penetration than either of the calibers you listed. HP rounds make an ugly, ugly channel, and tend to reliably disintegrate in a manner that has been described as “exploding” in soft tissue. They’re not a magical bullet or anything, but of smaller calibers, they pack rather a wallop.
I believe that the common wisdom is that if you shoot someone with a .25 and they find out about it, they are liable to be peeved with you. .22WMR is a far more capable round.
i have read up on this, quite a bit.
you may be reading incorrect numbers, .22 WMR is often tested out of longer, rifle type barrels, skewing your velocity figures.
out of a 6 inch test barrel, my numbers for a 50 grain softpoint .22WMR come out to 1250. that gives you 173 ft/lbs of energy to work with, give or take.
only numbers i could find for .380 auto were out of a shorter, 3.75 inch test barrel. even then, it came out to a 90 grain JHP at 1000 ft/s giving 200 ft/lbs of energy.
there is no such thing as a “magic” bullet. you either need more velocity, more lead, or both, if you want an effective cartridge.
a second consideration is reliability of a center fire cartridge vs. a rimfire one. there is a reason we moved away from rimfire for the most part in the 1800’s, with .22 lr and its cousins being an exception.
as for me, i have never been all too keen about carrying a “mouse” gun if my life depends on it. 9mm or higher is what i use, i don’t screw around with my life. they make small enough frames that i can hide a 9mm just fine, even with summer clothing.
My father teaches a Self Defense Act licensing course here in OK (SDA is the law’s name here, not conceal and carry). I help him with the course pretty much every time. One of the things he talks about during the course is this very subject. To illustrate this, he tells the story of a police officer who wasn’t paying attention one day when off-duty and out of uniform. He walked into a convenience store and saw the clerk with his hands raised. The clerk turned to him, saw him, and said “You’re a police officer, arrest this guy.” The man holding the store up turned to the cop and shot him.
Beside the idiocy of the clerk in doing that, the implicit message is that others may think that if you’re carrying, that you should stop crime like a crimefighter or a vigilante like the Punisher.
Another thing to keep in mind is the price of the weapon you are prepared to lose. IF you should get in a situation where you are required to use your concealed weapon in self defense, it WILL be taken by the police – as evidence. You *may* get it back, you may not.
I have no problem with people knowing I conceal carry, I also don’t care much about imprinting. I would open carry if it were legal. Very odd that it isn’t down here in South Carolina.
Same here in Texas. I’ve never really understood that one.
Me either. There was a bill earlier this year about making sc a constitutional carry state but it got held up in the state Senate. The Dems didn’t like the idea of anybody that happens to own a gun being able to carry it with out a license.
“The Dems didn’t like the idea of anybody that happens to own a gun being able to carry it with out a license.”
Funny, it works for us. (WA state open carry: completely legal, large OC movement, etc.)
We also have one of the least restrictive shall-issue CPLs around. And look, Ma, no blood in the streets, no OK Corrals, no skyrocketing murder rates.
I just shake my head in bafflement at the hysteria coming from the People’s Republic states about “Then ANYONE could carry a gun!!1!!”
Yeah, and…? What’s your point?
Now if only WA wasn’t so restrictive on reciprocity…
I remember a story a friend of mine related to me. He was on his high school wrestling team and the youngest of four children. His brother, an ex-marine was attending one of his matches and was essentially on his hands and knees pounding on the mat and shouting at his brother, the usual exhortations and encouragement. During the clamor and commotion, his pistol slipped out of its shoulder holster and fell onto the mat, probably a foot from my friend’s face.
Luckily nobody saw, as this was Massachusetts and I doubt that it would have gone over well.
An “ex-Marine” is a dead Marine.
For starters, in Massachusetts, if people become aware that you’re carrying, it’s highly likely that someone will become alarmed or upset and will make a “MWAG” call to the police. Depending on circumstances and your local chief of police’s attitude, that mishap may cost you your LTC on “suitability” grounds. (Mass. LTC can be revoked at the whim of the Chief of Police that issued it. It’s a long story, and beyond the scope of a short comment in a webcomics forum.)
For a variety of reasons, when I lived in Tucson AZ I had to be an “out of the closet gun nut”. Summers made carrying my Ruger New Vaquero concealed just too dang annoying, for starters. I was very politically active and down at the courthouse often enough that I’d be checking my piece in their lockers all the dang time, often surrounded by the other people supporting the election reform lawsuits I was helping with.
Funniest though…well, about three days into OccupyTucson there was a Tucson City Council meeting on it. About 100 of us went down there to speak, myself included. As we got up to the security checkpoint I asked a cop for access to a locker…AZ law says that a government agency who wants to disarm you has to provide a lockbox, and as a biker “leave it in the car” is a no-go. So they looked at each other, realized they had an “Occupier” who was strapped on their hands, locked up “Maurice the FrankenRuger” complete with the holster with a yin-yang on it.
Funny thing…across the whole OccupyTucson thing of about eight months, we had zero incidents of police violence. They knew there were guns in camp…at least six that I knew of.
Pretty funny.
When someone I know is a gun person, I don’t mind them knowing I have my CHL (Concealed Handgun License is what they’re called here).
Sometimes those people are co-workers.
Often word gets around that I know a lot about firearms, and sometimes people at work come to me with questions about getting a first firearm, or how to get a CHL, or . I don’t mind being a knowledge resource, and I make it clear when I state opinions versus facts versus ‘what some people say on the internet’. I’ve helped four coworkers to get their first firearms; through discussion and taking them shooting, and going with them to the gun show and or gun store.
Almost always, the places I’ve worked have been victim disarmament zones, so I comply with company policy.
When the topic of “what do you carry” comes up, I tell the folks I trust specifics (this for pocket carry, this for IWB).
I don’t believe I’ve ever had someone ask me if I’m carrying at that moment, or if they could see it.
While working as a bartender in TX I took 2 guns away from patrons. In both cases I told them they could leave without the weapon or we could have work it out with the police. I also told both patrons that they could come back at a later (sober) time and collect the firearms. Neither one came back.
Side note: when I say took away do not think tough guy. One lady dumped her purse out on the bar looking for a lighter and I picked up her .38 from the floor behind the bar where it landed. The other one was a very very drunk dude who was showing off his gun at the bar. I asked if I could see it and when he handed it to me I walked away with it.
I’m actually okay with people knowing that I carry. Makes them less likely to fuck with me in the first place, and when you CC, getting fucked with can escalate quickly if your attempts to de-escalate are fruitless.
Thankfully, the Federal Courts struck down the Illinois CC Ban earlier this year and gave the State until the 9th of July this year to pass a CC Law that isn’t restrictive (like the BS laws in NY). We are essentially a Shall Issue CC state now.
Chicago Tribune, July 9th:
“Illinois today became the last state in the country to legalize the concealed carry of guns after both the House and Senate rejected Gov. Pat Quinn’s attempt to rewrite the compromise bill. Senators voted 41-17 to override Quinn’s amendatory veto of the bill. Earlier in the day, the House voted 77-31 to overturn the governor’s rewrite. The measure now becomes law, though the actual ability of gun owners to carry a concealed firearm remains months away.”
Text of the Decision for all your readers that are from Illinois: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/HB/09800HB0183lv.htm
The State of Illinois Requires all Legal Gun owners to first have what is called a FOID. Firearm Owners ID Card. They are valid for 10 years if issued after 2008, and 5 years prior to that.
What is the cost for an Illinois Concealed Carry License?
$150 for 5 years for Illinois residents
$300 for 5 years for non-residents
Illinois does NOT offer blanket Reciprocity for the other 49 states CCW permits. As such, the other 49 states will probably not offer it for a ILCCW.
Alaska, Arizona, and about a dozen others (IIRC) offer unconditional reciprocity and/or don’t require a permit for res or non-res alike.
That’s the next wave to push for folks in shall-issue states, universal reciprocity. It shouldn’t require Federal action in the free states.
Alaska laughs at your “liberal gun laws”..provided you aren’t a felon,and you aren’t walking into a courthouse or some other federal government building…you’re good to go. I prefer carrying my SIG P238 underneath a jacket,on my belt,in the factory SIG kydex.
Arizona is the same way for the large part. The novelty of seeing people open carry is still an oddity, though. Most people carry concealed in some form, even before it became legal without a permit.
Now, tribal property? WHole ‘nother ball o wax entirely. something about sovereign nation status or some such. (and most tribal councils are… _vague_ on the whole “can you carry or not” question, or even if it’s legal to have it stashed in one’s vehicle.
Due to the laws in Texas I am unable to have a CHL due to my mental disorder..Frankly its a law i can agree with..However it leaves me very few options in the way of defending myself if i have to. One reason i tend to carry a stout cane (my current one is made of a hardwood) and a thing of pepper spray along with a folding knife in my pocket..Granted it wont save me from a guy with a gun trying to rob me but a guy with a knife may have a bit of a fight on his hands as i know enough on how to use a cane to defend myself from an attacker..
I’ll contribute my own whine. I live north of Baltimore, within sniffing distance of freedom in PA. (Surprisingly to Maryland politicians, PA’s gun laws don’t cause waves of blood to roll down I83 across the state line.) Until Newtown, MD’s lack of any real CCW law was the number one thing gun owners had to complain about. No more. After 10/01/13, we can’t buy EBRs, handguns with mags over 10 rounds, and have to have a license to buy any handgun, much less carry it, which remains a practical impossibility. TX, even OH, looks like heaven to a MD gunowner.
Oh crap.
Sir Grant could you please delete my above comment for me, since I see no button to do so myself?
It’s in the wrong place.
A c&p of the comment–
–which I do hope you and others still might read–
is now properly in the discussion under the video it refers to.
Heh. Sorry.