Well, that’s okay, then! A brand new truck? HOW NICE!
Are you fucking kidding me? The officers who fired into the back of a truck without warning are on “administrative leave???” Fuck that! WHY AREN’T THEY IN JAIL???
Before anyone else continues defending these fucking wackoes in the comments, keep in mind:
Cops are civilians. They are civilians who are legally licensed to use deadly force to uphold the law, within certain parameters, but they are civilians. If you or I walked out into the street and opened fire at a vehicle as it drove away, because we thought it might be someone that wanted to kill us, we would be arrested and held in jail.
These guys? Probably still getting paid. They’ll be back on the street soon enough.
There are many reasons I left California nigh-20 years ago. The overall mentality of law enforcement in SoCal is one of them.
ADD: The news reports are saying the truck pictured above was shot “over 15 times” by officers. That’s like saying that over 15 people died of the Bubonic Plague. The photo isn’t even high res, and I count a whole lot more than 15 holes in it. A whole lot more.
I’ll defend cops in the abstract, but yeah- those guys are unforgivable. LAPD and a lot of other departments near where I live need to learn how to make an arrest like reasonable people and “transfer” their murderers to the other side of the prison cells.
Oh yea. It’s only in Southern California where the police have a problem attitude eh? It can’t happen here ?
Honestly? Cops in SoCal are far, far worse than other places I’ve lived.
I remember when the San Diego PD shot a man for carrying a towel on a stick.
Apparently, he’d gotten something nasty on his towel, and didn’t want to touch it, so he was carrying it with a stick. This somehow got reported as a man with a gun, and the SDPD showed up and just shot him.
Completely different from the man with a stick that the SDPD shot dead in May of last year.
If cops are supposedly held to a higher standard of conduct, then why is it that if we did the same thing, we would be sitting in jail and yet these two psychopaths walk free on “administrative leave.
Sounds to me as if they are NOT held to a higher standard of conduct, but, in fact, a LOWER standard.
This is why I say we need to disarm these fucks before more innocent blood is spilled, and take away their body armor.
The sick fucking thing about this, is that the injuries sustained here will be recorded in some database as “gun related injuries” and the statistics then used by some imbecilic, neuronally challenged, glial cell deficient, hoplophobic, panty-wetting sheep as an argument in favor of tasking guns away from civilians.
I swear these people must WANT to be slaves.
Sickening.
I’m going to go cuddle up with my girlfriend, her gun, and my katana, and get some sleep.
I lost a friend who was a Police Officer, he deprived the perpetrator a means of escape and took four .223 in the chest through the cruiser’s dashboard. He rolled up to the scene shut in the perpetrator’s car and never got out of his driver seat. He protected a lot of people on that rampage as another officer just rolled up and used his issued revolver to keep him occupied until other officer’s could make it there. That officer was wounded in one arm and trying to reload his speed loader that way, when the perpetrator walked around the car and killed him too.
I am not making an excuse as it is still to early in the investigation to know that, but the police are bound to make mistakes and occasionally really bad ones because they use killing force. Where do you house them? At the jail under isolation custody on a suicide watch? They will answer for their actions, even if it is just their own minds. Killing a man changes you, even during a war, unless you are a sociopath. Just give the authorities a chance to get some results from the investigation. Always obey a police officer’s legal instructions in a traffic stop or arrest situation, they wager their lives to protect others every day.
Where do you house them? At the jail under isolation custody on a suicide watch?
No, regular jail is fine. The same as you or I would get.
They will answer for their actions, even if it is just their own minds. Killing a man changes you, even during a war, unless you are a sociopath.
Well, golly gee whiz, that’s good enough for me! Forget I said anything! Tell you what, let’s let anyone who shoots an unarmed civilian walk free! After all, they’ll have to answer to their own conscience.
Killing a man changes you, even during a war, unless you are a sociopath.
It does, but anyone in a civil law situation who kills has to be held to the same standard. That means using deadly force has to be fully justified. Just because the police wager their lives every day does not give them a free pass to shoot first and ask questions later.
There is always somebody who posts something about a hero cop who got killed itlod as if that has any relevance to the topic at hand. Unless you are arguing that because cops get killed at work sometimes that this sort of thing is OK? Because construction workers get killed itlod all the time. What do they get to do that we should excuse with blanket amnesty because they’ve chosen a dangerous profession of their own free will?
Bear in mind that the commenters on this board probably have stronger opinions than the average person. For one thing, many of us have looked into what does and doesn’t count as self defense, and probably read horror stories of people who thought they were in the right and went to prison for manslaughter. For another, we’ve listened to “guns are bad, gun owners are all psycho, take the guns away!” EVERY DAMNED TIME anybody shoots somebody other than a black male (reporters don’t care about them).
I think everybody here tries not to paint with too broad a brush, but “administrative leave” seems a lot like cops covering for cops when they should be stepping as far away as possible. These are people who make the entire profession look bad–law enforcement (and the DA’s office) should be falling all over themselves to nail these guys to the wall. Anything else looks like condoning their actions, and THAT would be abhorrent.
Incidentally, I do feel there are cases where cops and citizens should be treated differently. They sometimes have to go into situations that we can just walk away from, and there’s a key difference there. That said, this isn’t one of those cases. This isn’t “moving in on a drug dealer and seeing someone holding a hairbrush that looks like a gun,” this is “using deadly force when danger is clearly not present.”
I’m in the Army National Guard currently deployed. If I failed to acquire Positive Identification on a target then proceeded to hit it with no less than 30 rounds (that’s where I stopped counting holes in the photo), I’d be arrested, face no less than several article 15s, stripping me of rank and pay, and most likely a courts martial followed by dishonorable discharge and persecution from the media and people back home not discounting possible jail time. Why would my penalties be so high? Because I failed to protect civilians and engaged without knowing what I was shooting. Why should those cops face anything less?
I would note to those reading this that Fox is a close and personal friend, who is currently stationed in Afghanistan. He is in a literal war zone. He is not allowed to behave as the LEO’s in this case did. Why should they be?
Why should they be? Well, because!..because.. *sputter* they’re the ELL AY PEE FUCKING DEE, fergchryssakes!
Because..
BLAMMITTY BLAM BLAM BLAMBLAM BLAM
that’s why
“Cops are civilians. ”
THANK YOU. I’m glad that there are other people who realize that.
J. the cops in So Cal are beyond fascist thugs it’s not even funny. They used to target military owned vehicles and give us multiple tickets to get their rocks off and get their monthly quotas filled at the same time.
I saw more gun use in California then anywhere else by law enforcement, it was like “Oh, Hey! There’s the ‘BAD GUYS’ let’s shoot them! Hur-hur-hur!!!” Cops fire over 50 round no one get killed and amazingly enough the bad guys get away. Then they shoot over 100 rounds into a car with unarmed suspects and kill them off and the police are like “OOPSIE!!!”
Even Ron “Tater Salad” White has a whole rant on law enforcement’s actions of wanton gun play without success. They spend $10 Million on real world trainer demos and still wind up being the worst, trigger happy fuckwits on the planet. A kid playing sniper on a X-box or at the arcade was able to hit more targets as a serial killer. Let’s give these cops a few rolls of quarters to train them instead…..
The truth is that the majority of the time, cops do their jobs right. I’ve been a law abiding citizen my whole life, with only one speeding ticket on my record. I’ve never felt hassled by cops. That being said, I do cringe every time a case like this happens. I live in NYC and in addition to the well-publicized Sean Bell incident there was another several years ago where police showed up to a 911 call where a woman wanted her son removed from her house. The man was standing out on the street when the cops showed up with a hairbrush in his hand. The cops shot and killed him, claiming that they assumed the hairbrush was a gun, since according to them during the 911 call the woman had warned the police that he was armed. The mother immediately made a statement to the press that she had said no such thing. The 911 call logs supported her side of the story, but I’m guessing the whole thing never got much further than a few meetings and maybe some “internal re-education”.
Oops, my bad. Here’s a new truck. What the hell? Seriously?
Police departments around the nation are doing their best to distance themselves from LAPD right now. It’s obvious that these folks have a real problem with target discrimination. The two trucks they shot up were the wrong color, make and model, and driven by the wrong color and size people. One could claim that Dorner has helped pickup truck owners by burning his: now people with dark pickup trucks can feel safer since they’re not being hunted by LAPD!
What a mess.
I’ll tell ya… if I’d had a dark colored pickup truck in LA, I’d have gotten a rental last week.
Sadly, cops are just as human as the rest of us. Unfortunately, however, when they make a deadly choice they are not held to the standards other civilians are. It’s not just LAPD.
Outside Washington DC, a group of teens was leaving an IHOP late a night. The waitress *mistakenly* thought they were skipping out on thier bill (the $$ was on the table), and alerted an off-duty cop who was doing security there. The officer ran out into the parking lot as the teens were pulling out in a extended cab pick-up. The officer ran across the parking lot at them, and when they didnt stop, started shooting into the cab of the truck, shot through the *rear* drivers side window, and killed a teen who was sitting in the back seat. My friend’s nephew was killed for a IHOP tab of less than $20.. and nothing was ever done about it.
I know a lot of great cops, who are doing everything they can to keep their precincts safe and reduce crime, especially violent crime, whenever they can. I think as a whole police are overworked, highly-dedicated, self-sacrificing heroes. I also think, however, that when they screw up, they should be held accountable, just the same as anyone else. A badge is not an excuse to be reckless. In fact, it should be that much worse when the bearers mess up like this… they’ve been trained not to.
“Police departments around the nation are doing their best to distance themselves from LAPD right now.”
If they’re smart, so is anyone living in the LA region.
I’ve signed up for a few gun classes where the instructor wasn’t announced until later. as soon as the instructor was announced, and I saw LAPD or worse, LAPD SWAT…I drop the class. I’ll take the financial hit. every LAPD instructor I’ve had has been abusive, condescending, and not terribly helpful.
for example, I showed up to a “patrol rifle” class with an M1A. no rifle type was specified, an M1A is my preferred gun. and I would rather “train like you fight”. several local police had M2 carbines, and like, me, they were sent to go get “real rifles” and come back. apparently only AR-15’s were acceptable to the instructor. what was at the top of his resume? LAPD SWAT.
I didn’t go back. training on an AR is a waste of my time if that’s not what I will be carrying.
Closer to 50 holes from my count(maybe I double counted a couple….)
I’m generally a defender of police. In fact one of my friends is a retired chief from LA. But seriously, look at the truck. Is it grey? NOPE. Is it a Nissan? Nope. Is it being driven by a large black man? Not even close. yet they filled the back of it with holes… And on top of that, IF IT HAD BEEN DORNER, HE WOULD STILL HAVE BEEN ALIVE! Thank heavens LAPD can’t shoot worth a darn, otherwise these women might have been dead.
That’s some South American Death Squad shit right there.
The largest, most heavily armed and most dangerous gang in Los Angeles is the LAPD.
“The largest, most heavily armed and most dangerous gang in
Los Angeles is the LAPD.the U.S. is Law Enforcement ”Fixed that for ya.
You know it was LAPD due to the fact that I counted over 30 bulletin holes and no one was killed. Only imperial storm troopers are so precise.
+1!!!! MTFBWY, Craig
Last I heard, it was 60 rounds.
Hey come on now. Maybe the reporters can’t count past fifteen.
That must be why they call standard-capacity magazines “large capacity”.
McCoolest – I suspect one of the reasons you’ve “never felt hassled by cops” is that you don’t live in SoCal.
They are not the same everywhere else. Apparently not where you are, and..well, not in Oregon, for one.
Personal anecdotes will follow, when I get the time (don’t worry jlg; RECENT anecdotes. Heh..)
Fuckin hell people. My construction crews are at greater risk of harm than any cop on daily basis. Do we glorify them and excuse everything they do because they have a dangerous job? If you’re so damned scared of the public that you have to shoot first and figure out what’s going on later, you’re in the wrong progression.
That being said, givens this and the other shooting of innocents merely driving a slightly similar truck, one wonders if there is or was a standing “shoot on site” order on this Guy. We’ll likely never know but it does cause one to wonder.
At this rate, Dorner can sit back and watch while the rest of the LAPD adds to the death toll.
And rapidly gain anti-hero status in the public eye. Look for some outrage when he’s finally taken down (along with FSM knows how many innocents – see also the Philadelphia MOVE bombing).
I absolutely think this is his plan.
I think he’s going to hide out just long enough for the heat to lessen (another week or so), come back into LA and get a couple more, then hole up again.
He’s got the talent, apparently, to drag this out as long as he wants.
Cops are like that *everywhere*.
Most cops are fairly decent people that actually take “Serve and Protect” seriously.
The rest of them are sociopaths who took the job because they like having power and authority.
L.A.’s cops are no better or worse that the cops in any other city. They’re just getting more press right now.
How dare you question the authority and judgement of your god-like Only Ones, Subject. They were clearly in fear for their lives. What, with some 46 shots fired (just an estimate from the photo) into the backs of whomever was in the vehicle, and with no justification whatsoever, no weapons displayed, no probable cause, no similarities in vehicle.
Maybe they figured the guy turned his blue Toyota Tundra into a smaller, blue Toyota Tacoma.
Hmm… I think I’m going to go slap a sign on my 4×4: “I’m Not Him — Don’t Shoot.”
See, I know a lot of police, and I went to an academy. So here’s my semi-professional opinion:
These yahoos need to be off the force or riding a desk. The primary rule with firearms (yes, I’ll throw the rest of them under the bus for this one) is to know your target. It is unforgivable to fire rounds into an area where you’re unsure what’s there. (I’ll give some leeway to soldiers in warzones, but congress has yet to declare war on LA)
So what’s their excuse? They were scared? They couldn’t do their job because they were frightened, and would rather shoot (poorly I might add, unless the cargo bed was a fleeing felon) the hell out of a driver and passenger (look at those holes!) they couldn’t identify? Unforgivable.
Cops work a thankless and dangerous job because of these morons. Do you know what would happen if innocents stopped being shot, harassed, beaten, or otherwise the subject of malfeasance at the hands of bad cops? The good cops would lead a happier life, with full public support and a much easier job.
When we find bad cops like this, the good cops and the people need to band together to get them off the force.
Off the force or riding a desk? No. In fuckin’ PRISON, like anyone else would be.
AaaaandTHAT my friends is the disconnect between civilians and cops. A civilian would go to prison for this kind of shit. A cop? Other cops, even the so-called “good ones” say, ‘oh they should be off the force, or riding a desk”.
I call BULLSHIT on this.
This is hypocrisy.
They swore a fucking oath to protect and serve. They violated that sacred trust. They deserve a date with a rope. Nothing more, nothing less.
Do they deserve a fair trial first? Not until civilians get fair trials.
“Cops work a thankless and dangerous job because of these morons. Do you know what would happen if innocents stopped being shot, harassed, beaten, or otherwise the subject of malfeasance at the hands of bad cops? The good cops would lead a happier life, with full public support and a much easier job.”
This may surprise you, Michael, but I do agree with you wholeheartedly, on this ONE point.
“When we find bad cops like this, the good cops and the people need to band together to get them off the force.”
No. When we find bad cops like this, the good cops need to Take Out The Trash. Whether that means putting the bad cop down like the rabid dog he or she is, or putting their asses in a cell with Bubba, (or Large Marge) for life. Either way. If you are a cop, YOU took an oath, and YOU have a personal responsibility to clean up the mess. I cannot stress this enough: If you call your self a good cop, then UPHOLD your oath and END this behavior. Do what has to be done.
Fail to do that, and you are a Bad Cop ™.
That’s what the corts are for, and if they’re on the force, they’re shielded by the department. Once you get them gone, try them. I’m sorry if I was unclear on that, but the word “malfeasance” has a pretty strong connotation, and it generally applies in cases where you should be tried.
That’s not my end, though. Nobody but the LAPD has been calling for them to get away with it. Dump them out of hand, then let the courts do what we pay them to do. Once we strip the uniform, the rest is downhill.
“Shielded by the department”. “Strip the uniform”. DO you not HEAR yourself??
THIS is what we, the non-cops, are objecting to. The idea that somehow it’s just world-alteringly DIFFERENT when there’s a blue uniform involved. And the paid vacation while “investigations” happen is just insult on injury.
Does any other profession have to be fired first before charges can be brought?
Blame the statutes lawmakers put in place that allow any officer to break any law in the commission of their duties so long as it’s what a “Reasonable Officer” would do. That is why you need to dump them first, is because the courts say, in black and white, that the law is different for police than everyone else. If you disagree (and you should!) get the laws changed, don’t complain when someone follows the law. Someone who ignores inconvenient laws is a criminal.
You make some very cogent points, Michael; and yes, the laws are part of the problem as are the police unions. Changing the laws and getting rid of the police unions (aka Employment Protective Organizations) are long term solutions that need to be pursued. I acknowlege that.
However, there is one point that everyone seems to be ignoring, especially the LEO’s. That is the moral obligation as a human being to stop this kind of shit IN PROGRESS.
Whether someone is a cop or not, if they have the tools to stop this kind of thing, and yet they let this kind of shit happen, instead of doing what is necessary to stop or end the attack, they are being an accessory. So sayeth the law as it hath been explained unto me.
Beyond the legal side of it, though, it seems that LEOs are ignoring the moral obligation that putting on the uniform entails. The point I wish that the supposed “good cops” would acknowledge is the same one I have made, and will continue to make. They have a moral obligation. They refuse to acknowledge it, or uphold it.
I note that you mention statutes allowing officers to break any law in the commision of their duties as long as the occurrence conforms to the Reasonable Officer sniff test. You then say not to complain when someone follows the law.
It can’t be had both ways.
Or, perhaps, there is no such thing as a good cop? That is the logical conclusion when not ONE cop will bother to step in and stop a legalised homicide, or a badge authorised beatdown. If there are good cops then they need to step the fuck up and stop this shit at the time it is happening. Not wring their hands and make excuses afterward.
Then again, I guess maybe there aren’t any good cops.
“Someone who ignores inconvenient laws is a criminal.” Ah, so the officers firing on people that have no resemblance or connection to the fugitive in question are, as others have stated, criminals. Thanks for the clarification. Now, can they please be treated like normal criminals, processed and held in general population while awaiting trial, just like the rest of us?
Yes, please.
Yeah, Marveen. Politicians, the other tax-eating plague on society.
■Los Angeles, California: Seven sheriff’s deputies have been notified that the department intends to fire them for belonging to a secret law enforcement clique that allegedly celebrated shootings and branded its members with matching tattoos. ow.ly/hxDPn – via http://www.policemisconduct.net/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/scenes-from-an-lapd-manhunt/
Know your Target, and what is beyond it. This was a flat out ” I am scared crapless and ” there’s the guy, lets hose him ( well, it kinnda looked like the truck)” Thank God LL Cool J wasn’t driving around town,
Damn…I’ve got to be in the L.A. area several times over the next few months. I just pray that this crazy bastard doesn’t start driving anything even remotely resembling a PT Cruiser!
Looks like about 2 full 15 shot clips from each of the officers 9mm pistols to me. Why they didn’t get the sack and thrown in jail for giving all police a bad name is beyond me.
Archibald needs his own tag.
That’s not even a fucking titan!
Remember subjects, you’re always safer when only the police and government have guns
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444812704577611553836585324.html
http://rt.com/usa/news/police-shoot-dorner-mistaken-037/
When the residents of your city have to make bumper stickers so the cops won’t shoot them…it’s time to move.
Jesus, I’m glad I live in AZ. All *we* have to worry about out here is being the wrong shade of brown.
Administrative leave is a requirement pending full investigation by internal affairs. As soon as whether or not it is determined he was justified in his actions, further determination will be made. If he violated relevant procedures, he probably will be charged. If he did not (and, without knowing the details of the situation, I cannot comment as to whether or not this is the case), then he will not be charged.