Military-style Police
Yeah, I’m sick to fuck of this.
Some of you already know my stance. I rubbed elbows with law enforcement, a lifetime ago, as a teen. I wanted to be a cop. Then I saw what that was like, firsthand, and I didn’t want to be a cop anymore. Mostly because I didn’t have enough hatred of humanity at large.
Yeah, I know, some of you will argue that there are good cops. Some of you will argue that you are good cops.
Here in America? You show me a “good cop,” I’ll show you a cop who saw other officers breaking the law, and said nothing.
The police in this country really do see it as “us against the public.” And they’ll snottily whine about gang members and people who want to kill them for wearing the badge. They live in a state of paranoia, mixed with a heaping dose of fear. And stay with me here: That is not how you “serve and protect.”
Cops break the law and abuse their power every fucking day. I’ve been preaching this for half my life, to anyone who would listen. I’ve been called a conspiracy theorist and cop hater the whole time. People are just now starting to realize that their local police force is nothing more than a legal street gang. They can murder, rape, extort, and beat anyone they want to – and the department will back them up, on the taxpayer dime. Law enforcement in this country has become a fucking disgusting sham.
So no, cops don’t need MRAPs. They don’t need to wear more l33t Operator kit than our roommate did this last time he was in Afghanistan. If the cops are given that level of equipment, all it does is empower them to keep oppressing the people they should, in theory, be protecting.
What a world.
Any LEOs who take offense to this, and want to argue that I’m just a shitbag running his mouth? Understand that this is how a vast majority of the American Public views you. I’m not a felon. I’m not a gang member. We don’t see you this way because we just hate cops. We feel this way because we’ve had personal experiences with crooked cops, acting like armed thugs.
Maybe? Just maybe?
You should work on changing that. By not being a fucking thug.
Very very large amounts of fucking this^.
I fully support your views Grant that you made about cops. They need to remember that we pay their wages and to stop treating all of us like criminals. I do believe that there are good cops out there but unfortunately they are in the minority.
MRAP is overspecialized vehicle, expensive to maintain, difficult to operate and most versions can be disabled by rifle fire. SWAT teams could do better with a basic armoured car.
You don’t mind if I share this do you?
How dare you share a comic I put out publicly on the internet!
Hehehe. Go for it.
Thanks, some heads are gonna roll
I always ask before sharing something, cuz I a polite motherfucker
Yes, I know a couple of decent cops. They both lasted, IIRC, two years before quitting in disgust.
I knew a good guy who was a cop, once. He was interning under me to become a substance abuse counselor – figured a drop to about 1/2 to 2/3 income was a good trade for being able to maintain his humanity. I know a woman who was a cop for a while, she was pure evil and hated everyone. She got kicked off the force for smoking weed and getting noticed doing it.
Hard to argue with that video.
Thank you for this! Very nice. Especially the list of characters. And the commentary below. You hit the nail straight on the head.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
No, no, no…you got it all wrong…it’s for occifer safety! They have a tough job and deserve to be safer then you, mere citizen. Now move along! (Where’s the sarcasm font?)
Sarcasm font? You mean Comic Sans…
My personal favorite is that unless there is something possitivly _huge_ going on it´s almost always cops checking if other cops broke the law. Makes perfect sense. Yeah.
Part II of being a cop-hating conspiracy theorist is to cite The Federalist Papers where Hamilton and his cronies argued that their giant federal power grab (ie, the Constitution) was no big deal because citizens would always outnumber and have better weapons than the government.
You mean the thing Mother Jones unintentionally pointed out when they put up the big yellow jpeg of the number of firearms in this country? I know I hammer on this point a lot, but totalitarianism doesn’t roll down the street in tanks: It kicks in your door at 3am and goes in with jackboots and automatic rifles. Kristallnacht wouldn’t have been any different if Germany had aircraft carriers, nukes, and helicopters. The turning point is ALWAYS men with rifles, and is always resisted with more of the same.
A good friend quit the force in a large “College” town police “Station” because of what he called “snake eyes” in other officers. He didn’t want to be involved in the shady dealing going on.
MRAP’s distributed nation wide to the small departments…
1. Are required to be maintained at the local Dept’s. expense- Your small town is paying all the upkeep. Heavy vehicle upkeep, even with light use is EXPENSIVE.
2. Must be kept ready to roll, and made available for use by Federal agencies (or RETURNED to Fed.gov on demand!)
3. It is a scam on local tax payers to force them into paying to maintain this large Federal inventory of occupation grade armored transports. (not combat grade, shoot the F’in EXPOSED brake system anywhere , the fuckers will all lock up)
4. In return for that maintenance outlay… Small town cops get to drive ’em in parades, take them to the school for kiddy show off days, and maybe use them to approach the local meth lab or whatever- Mostly it’s a fun expensive toy for your local boys in blue, and a way for the Feds to shift some tax burden to YOU.
Um… doesn’t ALL the tax burden belong to us?
This is why my town has an MRAP.
http://radiokenai.net/gas-well-stand-off-ends-peacefully/
Most Alaskans have guns,and most moose caliber bullets would go through the standard soft body armor like butter.
.300 Win Mag is no joke.
The nice thing about the Alaska State Troopers, is that before they are assigned to a particular detachment,they have to spend 2 years out in the villages…where there might be backup,or you might have to wait for a boat or a plane to bring backup..which could take plenty of hours or even a day or 3..
Crazy thought..don’t be a dick to a cop..they’re human too. They have to deal with plenty of law abiding and non law abiding people every day..
Just because you want to appear like a badass, and start announcing to the world your current displeasure with the cops by shouting “AM I BEING DETAINED? AM I BEING DETAINED?” That always speeds things along,and totally makes the cops day…
Even in THAT situation, an MRAP was the wrong tool for the job. An MRAP is truly designed to do ONE thing — allow the passengers to _survive_ (not ignore) large IED and landmine explosions that would turn an armored truck into confetti. The bullet resistance is secondary, and incidental to teh explosion resistance. MRAPs are actually VERY vulnerable to rifle fire in the right places, unlike simple, FAR less expensive, FAR less maintenance intensive, FAR less pricey spare parts, etc., armored cars that are designed to stop heavy small arms fire (that basically just look like boxy Suburbans, not Mad Max dystopian battlewagons).
Outside of major metro areas that concievably have enough “We gotta be able to close with a barricaded nutjob through a rain of bullets” incidents, there simply isn’t enough justification for heavily armored vehicles. I can buy LAPD, NYPD, etc., needing a couple of armored up SUVs (that will stop pretty any small arms fire an MRAP can stop. . . and is actually LESS vulnerable overall to small arms fire than an MRAP) for the rare occasions they actually need something for that.
Small communities having an MRAP (or any armored vehicle), “just in case” they need one, are in the same line as a small community with a 20 man police force insisting they need a Blackhawk helicopter with a Starfire thermal pod/laser illuminator, “just in case”.
On the few occiasions you need an actual armored vehicle, they have this thing called the “National Guard”, that you governor can call up AT WILL for law enforcement duties. There is NOTHING an MRAP can do that any APC or IFV in the inventory cannot do, aside from surviving large explosions detonated underneath them. And whether or not your governor ever calls them out for police duties or not, the DoD will still be paying to maintain them regardless, in case of need to deploy them overseas some day.
Maintaining MRAPs for police work is like paying property taxes to support the local public schools and choosing to send your kid to a private school that is SHITTIER than the local public schools. You’re paying MORE to get LESS.
Being “a dick” to a cop by challenging their violation of your rights is not a crime.
Keep that one in mind.
Freaking out and/or asking questions about what is happening isn’t remotely being a dick. Here’s a crazy thought: level headed communication skills.
No denying there are too many bad cops. Even one is too many but is in order before popping your top. Odds-on, you’ll win the lottery before getting curb-stomped by a cop.
Damn, butchered that post. Since I can’t edit it, at least the link works.
But I’m not just talking about getting beaten or killed by a cop.
Every time a cop threatens to kill someone who committed no crime, they are part of the problem.
Every time a cop coerces restaurants into giving them free meals, they are part of the problem.
Every time a cop lies in court, they are part of the problem.
Every time a cop decides to kick the shit out of a homeless person, they are part of the problem.
Every time a cop plants evidence, they are part of the problem.
Every time a cop pulls his piece without just cause, they are part of the problem.
Every time a cop lies to cover up for other cops doing these things, they are part of the problem.
Every time a cop refuses to file a complaint from a citizen against another cop, they are part of the problem.
I have seen cops doing all of these things. All of them.
The problem is much, much larger than people think.
But that’s my point, James. You DON’T KNOW. As a result, the threat is exaggerated. I agree with each of your points. Except that I have trouble believing its endemic. In part for the reasons Schneier expands on. The ‘If it bleeds, it leads’ mentality of the press is at least as responsible here too. Hell, I’ve even got my own out of control cop story although, to be fair, paramedics and hospital were culpable as well. It’s just that I don’t believe that sort of conduct is the order of the day.
At the end of the day, I respect the hell out of cops and, in general, support them. Trust them though? Not a chance.
Last bit. Gotta remember that cops are people. And, as everybody knows, the world is full of stupid people. Frankly though, I’d bet that cops are, on the average, less messed up than the run of the mill douche nozzles you encounter daily on the street.
OTOH, half the population has an IQ of less than 100 and the frequency of personality disorders is pretty much the same for any given group. . .
Is there need for reform? Absolutely. But how would you replace them and with whom? Or are you asserting that we’d be better off without any law enforcement?
Are you aware that police patroling our own streets tasked to protect our own citizens have more legal protections than soldiers serving in war zones? In other words, it is harder for a cop who kills a citizen to get into deep shit than it is for a soldier killing the enemy.
You may wanna Google “no duty to protect”, might open your eyes a bit. Police are there to investigate and aprehend , not protect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
Oh, that’s one of my favourites. Yeah, you don’t exist to protect my person or my property, but you don’t want me to legally have the right to do it?
Pete:
First, JL is citing eyewitness accounts. I’m going to presume that he has seen everything he cites in his list of August 29 above in this thread, in all likelihood numerous times, in a law enforcement agency generally not noted for corruption — the sort of relatively small, local agency that most of the residents trust as friends and neighbors. Eyewitness beats speculation in my book, every time. “The Policeman is Your Friend And Other Lies” should probably have been published long before it was.
I’ll agree that being rude to a cop is extremely stupid. And I think that David Brin is more right than Lord Acton when he says “It’s said that ‘power corrupts’, but actually it’s more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power. When they do act, they think of it as service, which has limits. The tyrant, though, seeks mastery, for which he is insatiable, implacable.” Have no doubt that the law enforcement officer has a lot of power, and the entry requirements are pretty low. Or that Gresham’s law applies to cops as much as money.
How do you “respect the hell out of cops,” if you don’t trust them? :s
Because they do S critical job. One that I can’t.
Doh.
Honestly, it sounds like you’ve chosen to FEAR them, which should not be confused with respect.
Believe what you choose. You’ve heard my story and I’m sticking to it. Speaking as a former city range master, the only valid reason to fear armed cops is to be anywhere within 90° of their intended target. If I had a buck for each conduit, wiring run, and light bulb I’ve replaced after the cops had my range, I’d be comfortably retired.
I’ve heard your story, yes, and that includes this part, which sparked my comment: “At the end of the day, I respect the hell out of cops and, in general, support them. Trust them though? Not a chance.”
> Except that I have trouble believing its endemic.
And that’s just it – when I first started spouting this rhetoric in the 1990s, nobody believed me. They thought it was nonsense, I was making shit up, and there was no way this corruption was so widespread.
People are beginning to realize that I am right.
And if things continue the way they’re going right now… you will eventually realize it as well. I sincerely hope you don’t have to learn it firsthand.
Let me guess: you’re white.
Wow.
Sharp like marble.
Let ME guess. . . Since you can’t argue the message, you fall back on the last refuge of incompetents and politicians and attack the messenger.
Keep it up, you’ll be the next president of the United States.
You know what he’s SAYING though, right?
You’re less likely to experience prejudice at the hands of some power-hungry douchenozzle if you’re not part of ‘the demographic’ they’re most often on the lookout for.
And remember, prejudices are the bane of small minds, and Police entrance qualifications can have a MAXIMUM IQ. Those two things amplify the issue.
And just a quick note:
You have no idea what the odds are. It’s likely that there’s no way for us to tell. Why? Because the FBI and LE agencies nationwide don’t really keep track of how many people are killed by the police each year.
Yeah they do. Bloom berg adds the numbers to the total of “school shootings” or “children killed by guns”
There’s a set of kids making a smartphone app to keep track of that now, believe it or not.
You know, I was in the army for five years. Deployed to Mosul, Baghdad and Al-Kut. To this DAY I’ve still seen more cops pointing guns at me than insurgents.
Only point I’ll disagree with is that they shouldn’t have it because they don’t need it. I don’t need a lot of the stuff I have, but don’t tell me I can’t have it, because I don’t need it. That’s gun grabber talk.
HOWEVER I do believe that there should never be any equipment that law enforcement can have that the general public cannot purchase. SWAT shouldn’t be able to have brand new fully automatic weapons unless I can have a brand new fully automatic.
If you’re an agent of the government, you should be justifying to us why you get to forcibly take our money and spend it however the hell you wish. MRAPS are a classic example here, since they are a vehicle designed to resist mines, not do anything remotely useful to actual police work.
If they were buying this equipment and maintaining it out of pocket, I’d say your point is valid. But it’s not.
Some departments are footing the bills(not on MRAP’s but other equipment). Some officers have to pay for the equipment they use, and it comes out of their pay(they can get a tax deduction for it, just like you can get a tax deduction on a computer for your work). But the departments with the equipment budgets paid by the jurisdiction through taxes, you’re right. They do need to justify why I have to pay for it. Point taken. Full disclosure: I have several friends who are police officers. One was chief of police for LAPD. I just don’t see the kind of corruption you seem to think is rampant. Is it there? No more than in any other government job. But that’s the public union issue again. It’s easier to promote a bad cop than to fire him. So the good cops quit, and the higher ups get packed with bad cops.
> “No more than in any other government job.”
Well, if THAT’s not a red flag, I don’t know what is.
Nope. As taxpayers, when _we’re_ footing the bill for stuff that is being used by _our_ employees to do the duties _we_ assigned them, _we_ have a right to know why they need them. I’ll make exceptions for truly covert equipment used by actual covert agencies for bona fide covert operations — but civilian oversight is still (theoretically) provided through our elected representatives, even in those cases.
I can’t just tell my boss I need a sweet new ride for my job unless I can explain to him _why_ I need it. Cops are no different.
So much THIS! Our elected representatives use the taxpayer as an unlimited credit card that they overcharge like they expect the bill to never come – and then when a payment is due? They keep spending and start trying to cut out the only parts of the budget that normal people want to keep.
We have armoured up 4x4s for our version of swat in Aus. Though those only come out when crims start using more firepower than the issued glocks(or S&W M&P). Then they show up with M4s and shotguns (which no other police fore uses, except those way out in the sticks get shotguns in only one state) with their L33t gear, make a big show, rarely do what they couldn’t do with a glock or even a .38 revolver, then GTFO and let the uniformed cops deal with the paper work.
Qld recently started issuing Remington R4s (AKA AR15s) to certain officers and they were fitted with optic sights. Their max range in their hands is supposedly 50m. This is either a burecratic reason or they CBF training them properly, but it makes them almost unnecessary. How’s that for a waste of cash.
50m? As in meters? Thats what 55 yards? A 16 inch ar can hit out to 600 with ease, and ive seen guys hit out to 800 with surprising regularity
If you are incapable of engaging a target beyond 50m with an optics equipped rifle, then you have no fucking business anywhere near a rifle of any variety. Hell, back when I enlisted we were required to be able to engage to 300m with iron sights. Even the guys that couldn’t shoot worth a damn would just skip the 250m and 300m targets on qualification day, and use the couple of extra rounds on the targets at 200m and less.
Yep. I don’t know is those are operational constraints or lack of training. Either way they said it was to extend the area they can control because the glock 22s they use are only good for a max of 17-22 meters in their hands (90% of the time these glocks are the first guns the recruits ever fire and 90% of the training is at 7 yards AFAIK).
50m =~54 yards
I’m completely frightened by the idea that someone may unearth the REASONING behind that 50m max range, and it will be some complete “shoulder thing that goes up” bullshit like “we don’t want you to hit nearby people” as if A) you should be shooting at someone with innocent bystanders at ANY range, and B) as if a rifle caliber isn’t MORE capable of penetrating a perp and moving on to target of opportunity #2 at short ranges.
Um, with a 200 meter zero (can be sorta fudged at 50 yards), a carbine like that will have a max ordinate of 2″ and a matching drop well out to 300+ meters.
That means that, without making ANY sight changes or holding off to compensate, literally shooting at the center of the target, the rifle will hit between 2″ high and 2″ low throughout that entire range. That’s “headshot” accuracy. Which means that any *minimally* competent shooter should have NO problems using that rifle as a “high center chest shot” rifle out to at least 300 meters, just by holding center of the top half of the torso (“high COM”) (Understand that the shooter error for anyone who could pass a fairly lame qualification course will be an oval as range is more difficult to judge than azimuth, double group size for shooter skill, double again for stress – that’s *still* an oval roughly 16” high, maybe 12” wide.)
If the cops are so inaccurate with an optically sighted 5.56mm carbine that they cannot be trusted beyond 50 meters, no, they shouldn’t have rifles at all. Probably shouldn’t have pistols, either, since pistols are WAY more difficult to shoot accurately than rifles, so they’ll be at least as bad with a Glock at 5 yards as they are with a carbine at 50.
I would tread lightly where the Police Militarization rant is concerned. “Oh, you’re saying police don’t need AR-15’s? Then neither do you.” I see a backdoor gun control push here.
Again, if they were buying them with their own money out of pocket, and being paid by someone who isn’t, you know, me, then you would have a valid argument.
Firemen don’t need AR-15s either.
And, “no more police militarization!” isn’t the same as saying, “Cops don’t need AR15s!”
1. An AR15 is a dmaned fine longarm for LEO use — better in most cases than the traditional Remington 870 shotgun. Especially when teamed with appropriate ammo.
2. There are even times and places for heavy body armor (beyond the daily wear vests), helmets, bullet resistant vehicles, etc. That time is not, “Every single day” and the place is not “Serving warrants looking for weed”.
The “S” in “SWAT” and “SRT” stands for “Special” — the acronyms aren’t “STANDARD Weapons And Tactics” or “STANDARD Response Team”.
I will say that, even when and where an armored car may be called for (such as a heavily armed barricaded subject who HAS to be approached and taken down), an MRAP _IS_NOT_ the proper vehicle, unless the guy has laid a bunch of large landmines or IEDs on teh approach path. An MRAP is a specialty vehicle, intended for a specialty environment — that’s why DoD is willing to pass them around like candy, because they are friggin’ worthless for 99% of military operations.
http://youtu.be/KUdHIatS36A?list=PLmKbqjSZR8TZa7wyVoVq2XMHxxWREyiFc
I have it worse than you. I actually went to college to be a cop (Bachelor’s Degree in Criminal Justice specializing in law enforcement management). After spending time with a few different police departments to see where I would apply, I said forget that and got a job doing tech support.
BTW, does anyone remeber when cops were going around wearing t-shirts that said “Police, the world’s largest street gang.”
I remember THESE shirts all too well.
And yeah, I was merely an Explorer scout for a while. Still more than enough for me to walk the fuck away, and view all P.D. as armed, vicious thugs. Sheriff’s dept. isn’t QUITE as bad – they tend to actually rat out any shitbags in their county, unless ALL of them are being shitbags, in which case it’s thuggery as usual. Park Rangers are the exception – almost every park ranger I’ve known or dealt with has been a “good cop.” Mostly because that’s the shit you get assigned if you get drummed out of other LE agencies for being a “snitch” on your fellow officers.
At this point in time, if your police force has MRAPs and they don’t have badge cams? Go to a town meeting and raise HELL. They are making a deliberate effort to increase the use of force and decrease the accountability of their officers.
I know ONE Good Cop. As for the rest, you are spot on.
OK, Officer, so YOU’VE never abused your authority. Let’s say my buddy Bob comes by to pick me up for a night out. He shows up in a Corvette, which I know Bob can’t afford. There are nicks on the windowsill, and the ignition switch is punched out. We all know how Bob got this car. If I lie for him, or simply don’t report him…am I not an ACCESSORY to his crime?
This is why the general public is beginning to disregard your excuses. If you aren’t doing everything in your power to eliminate the thugs from your department, then you’re an accessory, and you get no sympathy from us. And if the shit seriously hits the fan(as is becoming increasingly likely), you’re going to find that you need us a lot more than we need you.
Ponder that a while.
A bit arrogant to say you speak for the majority of Americans. You don’t. You attitude is no different than cops who feel the majority of the public is against them. Both parties make the assumption that the other is inhuman and unified in their perception of the other. So you want to be treated as non criminal individuals but All cops are bad? True no one likes cops because they put limits on people’s behavior but that’s what the voting public wants. You want cops to mind their business and stay in the car till they’re called? Go live in Chicago then. See how that’s going. Are there bad cops…yes. There are also bad lawyers doctors firefighters bakers nurses politicians solders and day care workers. Why? Because we’re human…even the cops. Besides if people policed themselves and their family and friends and neighbors. You wouldn’t need cops. But they don’t.
Bill says “There are also bad lawyers doctors firefighters bakers nurses politicians solders and day care workers. ” Yes, but police are supposedly tasked to stop crime. Therefore, they should not commit crimes. Therefore, they should take notice if one of their fellow officers is giving the police force a bad name by committing crimes. Sure, cops are human too. So shouldn’t they want to serve and protect the populace and put the best face forward in what they do? Rather than throw their weight around indiscriminately, abuse the public, and behave recklessly?
Put another way, if a nurse abused a patient she’d be out on her ear. If a firefighter purposely burnt down buildings he’d be up on charges. If a day care worker abused children, they’d be in prison. But we let the police literally get away with murder.
Yes, but for each and every other “these can be bad people too” case, when you catch one, who do you call?
And THERE’s the bottleneck.
Except, of course, that lawyers, doctors, firefighters, bakers, nurses, politicians, soldiers, and day care workers aren’t handed a weapon and empowered to use it on American citizens, on the streets of our own neighborhoods.
Officers in St. Louis carrying tasers opt for their pistols and kill a man. Cops responding to a 911 medical call use their tasers on the 74 year old man they’d showed up to help, because he got angry and didn’t want to get off his couch and go to the hospital. Tased him while he was still seated, no less. Every time you turn around, there’s another story like this. If firefighters behaved like this, we’d call them ‘arsonists’, and they’d get put away.
But the cops don’t. Time and again, when you look into these stories, the cops are found to have acted with ‘excessive zeal’ or some such, but they’re routinely put on a desk for a week, and then right back out there. It happens in every part of the country, and it’s definitely getting worse.
My brother in law went from Army to State Trooper back to Army because of the shit he saw while in a police uniform and the corruption was so bad he reported it and had to leave the USA with his family while the investigation was underway to protect them from retaliation by those cops associates. They had to live on base housing and have escorts to and from schools. It shows that even when the laws are supposed to protect the innocent and good in the world. There are those folks who believe in doing bad things without accountability and believe they’re above the law without the rules to govern them at all. The fact is that while the government is a necessary evil it’s worse when the evil of psychopaths harm us even worse…..
I’m a Veteran with an Honorable Discharge. I worked for a major defense contractor for over a decade and held a Top Secret clearance. I have a Bachelor’s of Science from a good school. I am not a dirtbag gang banger. In 2008, I was stopped in Illinois and had $24000 stolen from me by the Illinois State Police. No charges were ever filed against me, and despite producing bank records and capital gains information (the money was from selling my house) I still had the settle for letting them keep $8000. Then in 2012, the Sonoma Country Sheriff’s came to my house looking for someone else. They arrested me with no cause, threatened to kill my dog, and eventually stole $5000 in rifles and pistols from me. After a year of arguing in court, most of the (totally fallacious) charges were dropped and we settled for a two misdemeanor deal that ended up with me doing JAIL TIME. For what? Possession of an SKS rifle with a Tapco stock on it. The gun and drug laws are a joke, the cops are corrupt, the system CREATES criminals. I’m turning strongly towards the idea that local police departments should be disarmed. If that’s how I feel, imagine how the gang bangers feel.
I guess the thin blue line has moved all the way to the top where everyone is a criminal
Very minor, but not more then 2 days ago. Got done with work after midnight and drove directly home. During the 20 minute drive I crossed two intersections where a cop was stopped since I had right of way, and both followed me, and both stopped me because I had a 95 buick with minor issues they decided to warn me about.
They problably were hoping I was black, and were disappointed
I have not been able to trust a cop since I was a small child. They beat the living fuck out of my step-brother for no reason (he was like 17 or 18 and drunk). His friends scattered, they caught him (crime = underage drinking). I’ve seen the photos. He looked like hamburger. His face was destroyed; his body, broken. (White, btw. He’s about as lily white WASP as you can be.) We sued. Cop lied in court, on a lot of counts. Thankfully the judge was able to suggest that perhaps oaths of truth might be somewhat, you know, important. We “won” the law suit – and step-brother didn’t go to jail on the charges of being beat to shit by a cop.
Don’t win a lawsuit against the local PD in a smallish town. It was hell until I moved out. I was stopped and questioned, searched, and harassed at least once a week throughout my teen years.
And these are the “good” cops dealing with upper middle class white folks. Imagine being a step down on the privilege ladder?
The video was good. Why does everybody put Trayvon under police violence? I have seen so much in the last week about people killed by police and everyone had Trayvon listed in there.
Hm. That’s a damn good point.
Because people tend to equate Neighborhood Watch with Police Auxiliary?
I’ve been hammering on the point that everything this cop did in MO was one step WORSE than Zimmerman… Zimmerman didn’t have a taser as a backup option, he didn’t shoot while they were still at range, he only fired one shot, and his injuries were documented on site, and not manufactured from a far off University public domain stock MRI shot with the school name erased. Also, his counterpart wasn’t trying to escape, he was trying to engage. So yeah, Zimmerman looks squeaky clean, if all these police apologists apply their excuses across the board, and we shouldn’t hear any more about him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeVzwNV8QOA
I’m pretty concerned about militarization of the police, and the use of paramilitary tactics by civilian law enforcement. I’m also an MP and a veteran. Generally, I’m against the police using military equipment and tactics outside of very narrow confines.
For counter-point, I found this chief of police’s explanation about their ownership of an MRAP to be worthy of consideration, or at least complementary knowledge for the conversation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/08/22/first-person-salinas-couldve-been-ferguson-heres-why-it-wasnt/
This is also part of the problem: http://news.yahoo.com/california-cops-used-government-database-screen-women-wanted-173406791.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory
Admittedly, it’s a relatively minor thing, but it still violates the public trust, AND the other cops knew it was happening and did nothing to stop it.
Yep to all of it.
Especially after the last time, I get terrified every time a cop pulls me over. Which thankfully (knock wood) hasn’t been in a long time.
All I did was have my registration-date-extension number in the wrong window (it wasn’t, actually. Said so right on the back and was in compliance).
Cop had me fairly blinded with his spotlight from the get-go, even before I got pulled over–and when I mentioned that later, he said it was on purpose, because he didn’t want the public to see what he might be doing (?!)
He’d tagged me off the freeway, and I was looking for a safe spot to pull over, despite not being able to see because of the spotlight glaring in all my mirrors and lighting up the inside of my car like midday. This was at night.
He used his PAS to yell at me to pull over, when I waited for a utility truck to finish crossing in front of me “…NOW!” What did he want, for me to run right into the truck and have a wreck?
Then, once we WERE pulled over and parked (we = Gordon & me), his attitude was such that I fully expected to be yanked out of the car and frisked.
It was only when he saw that the long-haired person next to me was a man (nope, not two old ladies together, darn) that he adjusted downward even a smidge.
Gordon sarcastically–but not uncompliantly– ripped the sticker off the side window and put in where the officer decided it should be.
Absolutely quaking, I couldn’t drive again for several minutes.
It was like the guy was just looking for an excuse to draw his gun and call in his buddies. Every movement was stiff, angry, bristling..and this was over nothing! NOTHING!
I realize this tiny incident of mine wasn’t even really an incident, but
it was symptomatic.
Then again, one time in Oregon, as Gordon & I were driving home from visiting relatives in Washington, a cop pulled us over for a tail-light out.
He shocked me with his calm, cool, politeness. Almost friendly. down to earth.
He didn’t even write us a ticket, just stood there chatting while Gordon fixed the taillight on the spot (we pulled over into the lot fo a Home Depot).
Wished us luck.
Jusging from the way the car was packed to the windows, all hodge-podge, I’m sure he presumed us homeless.
But he was nice.
He is the only such one, out of decades, that I can remember.
MRAP is a classic military hardware follow-the-money tax bleed. American heavy truck manufacturers and military contractors boondoggled about $50 billion for a poorly integrated non standardized one trick wonder.
Wow bigger POS than the bradley at 4 times the price
Thare are an INSANE amount of tweets buy soldiers who served in the midle east who said that the fergison cops were more geared up then they were in cities like bagdad when they had to do riot control
our cops should NOT look like fucking storm troopers
cops, aka law enforcement officers are underpaid… along with emt’s. accidents are bad enough. do you want to skimp on emergency responders just because criminals exist? the law is the only thing keeping any of us from each other’s throats. so, prosecute criminals even if they pull a government check. oh, and give the cops and paramedics that get injured people into hospital care enough compensation to support a family and maybe one day retire. maybe if you did that instead of blowing cash on expensive, bullshit doodads… maybe you’d have fewer discipline problems let alone criminal activity within your police departments.
I don’t think an average of $45-50k per year is underpaid, and I say that as a veteran, before I get the “you have no idea what it takes to earn that money” rejoinder I sometimes see.
thank you for your service to our country. veteran what, accountant? pay the people who do the work… in this instance police, fire, and emt’s. don’t pay some contractor “friend” of politicians for some bullshit, pseudo-military garbage. i don’t want to be in traffic next to whatever the hell that wanna be garbage is, much less pay for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJLIiF15wjQ
We’re ALL becoming veteran accountants, trying to figure out how to get by on less, while government keeps getting more. I earned MAYBE $40k, max, deploying from Hawaii a couple times. Why a cop in the contiguous states needs more than that, where the rent DOESN’T average $1,300, boggles me. I socked away enough in one year for a 20% down-payment on a house, when I PCS’d.
“the law is the only thing keeping any of us from each other’s throats.” <- this is as ridiculous as the argument that only the religious have morals. If you need the cops or god to keep you in line then there is something wrong with YOU, YOU are lacking in humanity.
you don’t know me.
But you, magicaly, know everyone else…..
There’s always people like me who see the law as arbitrary. It ain’t a crime if I don’t get caught. I try to be a good person because I know my actions will affect the lives of others. Not because of words on paper that we call the “law.”
And it’s keeping up with threads like this (77 post in just over 24 hours) that give you a pass on a missed post every once in a while in my book. Can’t imagine how you juggle all those chainsaws. *hat tip
Amen.
At least Heidi wasn’t in this one.
Remember, it’s usually pronounced “terist.”
Oooooo boy. Lemme tell you took me a couple reads to see that Period between citizen and terrorist lol. had me a little confused but Laughed like crazy at the end.
I really can’t get enough of the Osama derp face. I really want to use it as an avatar on a random political forum and get myself banned for it.
One cannot argue with a man who has made up his mind.
Totally agree JLG. The cops are beyond being a force for good, and have become a force for evil, due to their paranoid attitude. The whole war in Iraq and Afghanistan seems like an excuse to A: Steal lots of oil, and B: build lots of Military equipment, which you can later say is too useful to destroy or leave in a foreign country, as an excuse to militarize the police force back home.
When the local law enforcement starts looking like Special Forces, it’s time to leave the country or tell them in whatever caliber you have that it’s not on.